Author Topic: New Mossberg Centerfire BA  (Read 1425 times)

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Offline armory414

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New Mossberg Centerfire BA
« on: February 06, 2005, 04:52:13 PM »
I had a chance to take a close look at one of these new guns at a local Wal-Mart.  Boy, was I disappointed!!!  I thought that the Remington 710 was about as low as you can go in a centerfire rifle, until I saw the new Mossberg.  If their latest attempt at a .22 and centerfire rifles is any indication of which way the company is going, I don't expect them to be around in 5 years.

The version I looked at had a black synthetic stock and stainless barrel/action.  The stock was pretty basic, which is fine.  It sticks to the classic rifle lines, and has comfortable molded in checkering.  Looks a lot like some of the Ram-Line synthetic stocks I've handled.  The action/barrel was either crooked in the stock, or else the stock was warped.  One side of the stock put a lot of pressure against the barrel (the gun on hand was a .30-06).  The bolt movement was a little gravelly, but could probably be smoothed up over time with either judicious use of a stone or just using the rifle.  The bolt was fairly simplistic, with what appeared to be a push-feed system similar to the Winchester Mdl. 70.  I didn't think at the time to check out the lug locking system.

Probably the thing that bugged me the most was the barrel.  It had nice deep rifling, but it appeared to have metal shavings remaining in the barrel from the rifling process (or else they used a really low grade of stainless steel, and it was corroding).

The $244 price tag was appealing, but apparently you have to put out $700 or MORE for a FACTORY quality rifle anymore.  Disgusting!

Offline Eddie in Delta

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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2005, 06:42:02 PM »
I've been disgusted with the cost of most new rifles, too, but I could get a Savage for under $400.  Some people don't like 'em, but fuzzy little critters don't seem to notice if it's a Weatherby or Winchester.

I've gotten two of my three guns used, and they've done just fine for me.  My Savage .300 WM shoots better than I can.

By the way, if anyone wants to talk me out of Savages, they can send me a sample gun to get me to change my mind.   :-)

Eddie

Offline MGMorden

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Re: New Mossberg Centerfire BA
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 02:19:06 PM »
Quote from: armory414
If their latest attempt at a .22 and centerfire rifles is any indication of which way the company is going, I don't expect them to be around in 5 years.


I don't like the rifles either, but they (Mossberg) know what they're doing.  The vast majority of shooters aren't the ones who come to the message boards because they are passionate about shooting.  Nope, most of them might shoot a deer or two per year and don't really care much about the rifle.  The majority of these people just want to hunt/shoot on the cheap.  With a gun like this, they can do it.  Passionate riflemen will hate these guns, but I'd bet that Mossberg will sell boatloads of them.  I'll not mess with them myself for the sheer fact that you can't get one with a wood stock.  If they'd charge an extra $20 I'd try it out if it was available in real wood.  Doesn't even matter what kind of wood. I'll not be getting a synthetic stocked rifle though.  I'd rather put that money (minus a few bucks) into an NEF Handi-Rifle and have a much better quality (and better looking) firearm, even if it is a non-bolt gun.  But as I said, I don't (nor probably anyone else on this forum) represent the typical buyer.

Offline armory414

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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2005, 03:43:46 AM »
Oh, I realize that we're not the typical Joe Consumer.  And I think the typical guy does not want wood and blued finish.  They want synthetic/stainless, because just like they aren't going to spend a lot of time shooting/hunting, they don't want to spend a lot of time caring for their gun.  I doubt that Mossberg will sell a lot of these,  I think it will go over about as well as the Remington 710 and the Remington Viper.  I'm curious to see how they shoot, especially if properly mounted on a well-fitted stock.  But then again, there's other things I can spend $250 on, like another Encore barrel.

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2005, 06:56:23 AM »
Had a chance to range test this rifle in .270 Win.  Rifle barrel free floated.
Magazine follower stamped and caught bolt lugs when cycling rifle empty.
Rifling sharp. Stock flimsy.  Tore it completely down and gave a good cleaning.   Tried some factory Remington 150 grain.   Fired two shots to foul the barrel and then fired four shots and cleaned.  Continued to fire four shots and clean and then let totally cool down...Had topped it with an old Burris scope 3x9 had laying around....I suspect Mossberg trying to get into the Economy market.   Maybe the once a year hunter.    I will say this.......it put the groups (last two of four)  fired for record...into a nice .5 group.....it don't look like much, but sure did shoot...This gun made by maverick Arms for Mossberg, and they are out of Texas...I think the gun I had was a proto-type...It had no markings on it with the exception of the Serial number and a Mossberg logo on the bottom of the stock grip..........Not as good as a 710...add about $150 and get a Savage.

Offline armory414

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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2005, 07:44:22 AM »
Last 2 of 4 shots=half inch.  What kind of group did you get with all 4 shots?  Is there a reason you excluded the other 2?

I suppose if I had to do it all over again, and had to pick just one centerfire rifle, and wanted to get what I could for the money, I would probably go with one of the CZ centerfires, or an Encore.  I really can't see gun companies making anything in the "economy" market.  Sure, they're selling some guns.  But $250 will buy a lot more used gun than new.

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2005, 09:17:26 AM »
Meant, last two relays of four shots each........... :roll:  :lol:

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2005, 10:30:49 AM »
wow, a four shot group of half an inch!

my weatherby wont do that.


-Matt
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Offline barronj

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mossberg centerfire .270
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2005, 12:16:21 PM »
I have several expensive remington, winchester, and savage firearms and the mossberg $240 cheapy shoots better than most of them........maybe I have an odd ball. The gun will shoot consistent half inch groups with factory ammo......weird

Offline whodowl

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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2005, 12:44:57 PM »
CNC machines are cheap now.  So are the machined components of most rifles.  I know a guy turning out 50 cals with a couple Hurco machines.  I am curious about CZ though, does anyone know what there machining tolerances are?

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2005, 01:03:22 PM »
i dunno about the CNC

BUT

if a $244 rifle shoots groups like that who cares what it looks like or what it cost. last i checked the idea of a rifle was to shoot holes in tiny groups and take meat home. sounds like that one will do the job.

-Matt
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Offline Flash

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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2005, 01:17:30 PM »
Yes, I agree. If the Mossberg is a shooter, who cares what it looks like. I've sat in a stand before holding a bolt action Savage and not a damn deer knew it. Besides, A Winchester is Japanese and a Weatherby is a trade name and not a manufacturer. Actually, Mossberg has made Weatherbys but I'm not sure of the models.
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Offline MGMorden

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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2005, 01:34:36 PM »
Quote from: mjbgalt
i dunno about the CNC

BUT

if a $244 rifle shoots groups like that who cares what it looks like or what it cost. last i checked the idea of a rifle was to shoot holes in tiny groups and take meat home. sounds like that one will do the job.

-Matt


That's true to a point, but I've already got rifles that will do sub-MOA groups.  For anybody buying a first rifle who just wants a hunting tool then I think this is probably a very good buy.  Myself though, I'm not too picky on most things, but I don't like plastic stocks.  That's my limitation, and until they come out with a wood stock version, I won't be buying one.  To me a rifle with a plastic stock feels like a (functional) toy.

As I mentioned though, I don't think that we as a group are being marketed to by Mossberg anyways.  I'll not sweat it though.  Seems like there's plenty of other rifles to choose from these days so we're not at a loss.  If cheaper rifles like this get people into shooting then we'll all benefit in the long run  :grin:.

Offline whodowl

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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2005, 02:02:26 PM »
CNC machines and rifle components.  

What I should have said was that the cnc machines that are used in gun component manufacture today are much more affordable now than they were 10 years ago.  As a result of that, machined components of guns are therefore also much less costly to purchase now.

The first gun I ever purchased was a Mossberg.  I was about 16 years old and I was thrilled to death.  I bought it from money I saved by working as a stock boy at our grocery store.  It was a 16 ga. I took it out as often as I possibly could and hunted whatever was in season.  It was the only shotgun at the time I could afford that I had been told was of good quality.  I was proud of that gun, I wish I still had it.

Offline whodowl

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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2005, 02:18:37 PM »
I guess my point is guns do not have to cost a lot of money to be good shooters.  They do not have to cost a lot of money to enjoy hunting and the outdoors.  A person can be proud of their gun and it does not matter if it cost $200 or $2000.

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2005, 03:17:23 PM »
and amen to that
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2005, 03:34:53 AM »
As a second thought, the ATR100 cost less than a 710 and in my humble opinion will outshoot the 710.  But, having said that, the 710 is no slouch when it comes to accuracy.     Possible the ATR I tested was and happened to be a lucky good one, but I don't think so...One other thing I noted when I had it apart was the trigger assembly looked like an adjustable Timney or old Canjar...But, I am not an expert on trigger assemblies.   The trigger release was very crisp with no creep at all.....I have a lot of higher priced rifles and the only one that outshot the Mossberg right out of the box without handloading was the Savage 10FP.
Just for drill, I went out yesterday and ordered two of the ATRs just to have them on hand.......the .270 and the 30-06.   I will weld a bead on the front of the magazine follower and then round it off so there will be no friction on the bolt lugs when the magazine is empty...

Offline mountainview

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2005, 06:15:57 AM »
Quote from: whodowl
I guess my point is guns do not have to cost a lot of money to be good shooters.  They do not have to cost a lot of money to enjoy hunting and the outdoors.  A person can be proud of their gun and it does not matter if it cost $200 or $2000.


I'll add a 2nd amen to that.

Offline jvs

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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2005, 07:19:58 AM »
I have quite a few friends who only handle rifles during deer season, the rest of the year those guns sit in a closet.  When one of my buddies wanted to buy a rifle back in the 90's I asked him how often he planned on shooting it.  He said just for deer season.  I suggested he buy the Savage 110 packages because it was the cheapest thing on the market at the time and he was on a very tight budget.  He bought two boxes of shells along with the Savage.  He still has over a box of bullets left, and that was about 10 yrs ago.

That new Mossberg has a market with people like him, and I think there alot more people like that.  When I told him about the new Mossberg he wasn't interested because he already has a deer rifle.   While I know quite a few people who have Cabinets full of guns, I know alot more people who only have just one rifle, a shotgun and a .22.

Some people are easily pleased I guess.
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Offline 1dahunter

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2005, 07:56:28 PM »
I bought The Mossberg 100ATR and what baronj is saying is correct those things are Tack drivers I bought mine in .270 win, It is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned. This past deer season I took a big doe at 242 yards verified by a range finder she dropped on the spot and during feild dressing I found that I had blew her heart in 3 pieces useing 150gr Remington core lokts. I am no range buff but at 100 yards I can put 5 shots that can be covered by a quarter. Thats with a cheap Tasco 3-9-40 Buck scope. All this was done with out ever breaking it in just right out of the box.
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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2005, 07:19:58 AM »
The bolt catching on the empty mag is the same as the military guns are its telling you the mag is EMPTY!!!!!!  Its the norm!!!!  Incase you miss counting 5rds the bolt locks open on the last shot.  There's nothing wrong with the gun.                                                      BigBill

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2005, 07:47:29 AM »
Quote from: whodowl
I guess my point is guns do not have to cost a lot of money to be good shooters.  They do not have to cost a lot of money to enjoy hunting and the outdoors.  A person can be proud of their gun and it does not matter if it cost $200 or $2000.


While this thread may be about the Mossberge...I couldn't help myself with posting this link to a comparison of a very expensive rifle to that of a $250 rifle...

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html

While the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is defiantly true...buying a rifle to me is more than having...just a pretty one...or just an accurate one...it is a combination of several things...and also how the rifle feels to me when I hold it...and how it fits me when I shoulder it....and ...if it feels flimsy and cheap...it will always seem that way to me...and while investing a ton of money into another stock may seem logical to some...I really don't care for the rifle enough to spend that kind of money on it... and it may have an appeal to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford a better  new bolt gun...but  only time will tell if they hold up well enough to sell a-lot of them......Others may say the Handi is a better rifle...while to some degree that may be true... there are just as many that don't like or use single shots...

We each have or own ideas of what is the deceiding factor when buying a rifle...and looks aren't important to alot of folks as long as the durn thing shoots good....... for me...I not only demand excellent accuracy from my rifles...but they must also look and feel great great too...no-matter as to how they are stocked...with wood or synthetic...but...that's just my spin on it...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Zachary

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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2005, 08:02:01 AM »
You can dip a gun in gold and sprinkle it with diamonds but that doesn't mean that it will shoot better.

Unlike optics - where you essentially get what you pay for, that isn't always the case with rifles.  Why?  Well, for one thing a lot of "art" can go into a gun that can raise its price dramatically while all the while not adding anything to its accuracy.   In the case of the Dakota, it isn't just art, but also time intensive labor, better wood, etc.  But still, the H&R is a no frills gun whereas the Dakota is a showpiece and sometimes (or perhaps many times - I don't know) that's why people buy such guns - because they are beautiful.

Back to what I was saying, unlike optics, with rifles you can spend less but get a more accurate gun, and the Savage is an excellent example.

I understand the point made about this one Mossberg shooting a .5" group, but this is just one gun.  I'd wait a while to hear what other people's results are - like the Savage where just about everyone will tell you (and show you) that they are shooters.

Zachary

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2005, 10:01:58 AM »
:) BigBill----------------the bolt was catching  on the FRONT of the magazine follower upon the extraction of the last round....had nothing to do with the rifle telling me the magazine was empty and it is not normal in any bolt action rifles........I already modified it,  ground it into a radius and it is slick and now operates normal.

Offline longwalker

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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2005, 12:03:59 PM »
I was surprised that people think the price of rifles are so high. Yes machines cost less than they used two, and they do more. But lets look at the other costs, If you have a $65,000 machining center  and a cnc lathe an other $ 45,000 and a gun drill ( 20,000 ) and a broach (15,000) and grinders and fixtures and a building to make them in you too can make guns. Lets not forget the cost of material you have to have in inventory. If you want to make one it's pretty easy to figure out what your cost could be. If you want to 1000 increase the costs, because you are now going to need some people, along with insurance and electricity and taxes and and and. Nobody is getting ripped off by the firearms manufactures in the United States.

Personally I am always surprised at the quality we recieve for our hard earned money when it comes to firearms.

Just my opinion,

Longwalker
 :?

Offline doorgunner

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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2005, 01:27:50 PM »
Stopped by a Wal-Mart on the way home today.  They had one in 30-06, and for $244.86 it followed me home.  I tore it apart when I got home, and was very pleasantly surprised at the amount of quality for under $250.  I didn't need another 30-06, but then again, when was the last time that I bought a rifle because I needed it?

Here are my observations:

1-The bolt design from the bolt handle forward is for all practical purposes a clone of a Savage 110.  The rear of the bolt is cast, but looks a little more refined than the Savage.  The right lug of the bolt has a anti-bind groove cut in it.

2-The bolt release lever is a stamped piece of sheet metal, and is discreetly located opposite the bolt handle, and is well protected.  The actual bolt stop is rather robust, and sits in the usual location just right of the left bolt raceway.

3-The trigger looks so much like a Canjar, that I wouldn't be shocked if that's who made it.  However there is substantial creep in the trigger, but it breaks clean at 4.5 pounds.

4-The barrel is threaded into the receiver, but uses a non-knurled barrel nut (ala Savage style).  Because it's more contoured and not knurled, it is not nearly as distinct as the Savage.  The crown is well recessed.  The bore had the typical coating of packing grease, and fouling consistent with being test fired. The recoil lug is sandwhiched between the barrel and receiver, ala Remington style.

5-The stock compares favorably to some of the other tupperware synthetics seen on budget rifles.  The forend, while not totally rigid, is much stiffer than my Remington 700 ADL synthetics.  The composition of the stock seems much harder than the typical tupperware. The barrel is free floated from a point about 1.5 inches forward of the recoil lug.  The triggerguard is molded as part of the stock, and the magazine is blind.  The barreled action is held in the stock by two hex head bolts, which are supported by two rather large plastic pillars molded into the stock.  The rubber recoil pad is poorly fitted, but is soft and pliable, and may actually work.  The swivel studs (for lack of a better term) are molded into the stock, which is a very bad idea.

6-Inspection of the chamber showed a shiney, mirror-like surface, with no visible scratches, gouges, or reamer marks.  There are no sights furnished on this weapon.

7-The rifle came with Weaver bases pre-mounted on the receiver.  The mount screws were not even snug, so I can see a potential problem with some unexperienced buyers.  I removed the screws, degreased, and locktited them in place.

8- The action is cylindrical in shape, and the absence of casting marks makes me believe that it was either well finished, or it is forged from a billet.  The blind magazine holds 4 rounds, and the feeding and ejection of live rounds was uneventful.  The follower is chrome plated, well made, but the magazine spring is of the wire spring design, rather than the flat spring steel that we are all used to.

9-The finish of all the metal components was a dull matte finish, which surprisingly is in my humble opinion much nicer than the Remington ADL synthetics.

10-After careful examination and breakdown, I'm still impressed that Mossberg can produce a rifle that retails at $245, without a bunch of cheap plastic components.

I will drag it to the range on Monday, and ring her out well.  If this rifle shoots as well as the others that I've been hearing about, and Mossberg can figure out a way to market it, it might actually be the nail in the coffin for the Remington 710.  The local Wal-Mart manager advised me that they were alloted one rifle each, in .270 and 30-06.  Both rifles arrived yesterday, and the .270 sold within an hour.  He indicated that he heard that they were testing the market to survey the interest in the rifle.

This rifle took on a totally different look, when I installed a matte finished Redfield 3-9X40 scope in Weaver Quad-Loc rings.  The profile and appearance of the rifle looks incredibly good when it's scoped, and not cheap, like a Savage package rifle or a Remington 710.

On a final note, the owner's manual directs that all parts orders and warranty work is to be performed at the Maverick Arms plant in Eagle Pass, Texas.  So it appears that the probability that these rifles are being manufactured at the Maverick facility is very good.

I hope that my description sheds a little more light for those who are interested in this rifle.
"Walk Softly, and Carry a Large Caliber Bolt Gun!"

Offline Paul Barnard

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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2005, 05:15:12 AM »
I hope the rifle sells well enough for them to expand the caliber lineup.  At the present, I have a 30-06 and can't justify a 270.  I have heard they are using an ER Shaw barrel and the same action as the short lived Charter 2000 bolt rifle.  I have yet to see a negative comment from an owner, only from those who judge a book by it's cover.

When they make one in 223, I will buy one.  I'll mount an el-cheapo 3x9x40 on it and have a $300 plinker that is cheap to feed and will outshoot (based on reports from people who have shot them) or shoot with rifle/scope combos costing many times more.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Mossberg succeeded in bringing accurate, reliable, durable hunting rifles to the table for under 250 bucks.  I would think everyone would be pulling for them.

Offline doorgunner

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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2005, 05:35:41 AM »
Paul, I couldn't agree with you more.  From all angles it appears that this rifle is destined to be very successful.  It is going to require that Mossberg do a better job of advertising, and get the rifle into stores, where it's available.  Trickling a few here and there in a few Walmarts isn't going to cut the mustard.  They are definately going to have to do what Remington did, when they came out with their 710, and get an advertisment in every gun rag in the country.  But before that, they need to get production and distribution squared away.

Like I said earlier, this inexpensive rifle could very well be the "nail in the coffin" for the 710.
"Walk Softly, and Carry a Large Caliber Bolt Gun!"

Offline armory414

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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2005, 09:28:51 AM »
"Nobody is getting ripped off by the firearms manufactures in the United States. "

Compare gun prices now with 10 or 15 years ago.  The big 3--Ruger, Winchester, and Remington, have increased their prices by about 40% in that time.  How many of us have had a 40% increase in pay in that time?  Bottom line is that they are selling fewer guns as the shooting/hunting population in the U.S. shrinks, and so they have to make a profit with the crowd that they have remaining.  Are we getting ripped off?  No, but I don't think we get the same quality for our $$ that we did 10 years ago, or longer.

Offline strider72

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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2005, 11:43:29 AM »
May have to get me one....if it's shooting as good as a Savage...well,Walmart here I come.