Author Topic: Opinions wanted, pros/cons mdl 7 LS223 (Read 796 times)

whodowl · « **on:** December 28, 2004, 07:49:54 AM »

I plan on buying a .223 within the next week or so. I will be hunting for varmints to include bobcat and do not expect shooting distances greater than 150 yards where I will be hunting. My son, who does a lot of varmint hunting, says I should stay with the 24 or 26" barrels; I do not want to purchase additional barrels. I am considering only rifles with iron sights. Any and all opinions with pros and cons regarding the mdl 7, or any other rifle, would be very helpful to me. I am new to centerfires as Indiana does not allow hunting with them and am just now learning about these exciting guns and their cartridges. The GBO forums have helped me a lot and I relied on everyones comments to recently buy my first centerfire, a 700 30-06 and a Fulfield 2 scope. Any comments appreciated, to include cartridge sizes and type. Thanks

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:58:55 AM »

whodowl,

Quote

I will be hunting for varmints to include bobcat and do not expect shooting distances greater than 150 yards where I will be hunting.

While the .223 Rem. is a good choice it can be a bit hard on pelts. If your range is 150 yards you can always get a pelt friendly cartridge like the .22 Hornet. I have heard some good reports about the .204 Ruger being pelt friendly but have no first hand experience with it. You most likely will find that a scope will become a desired item and the longer barrel, even with iron sights, is also desired as it gives you a longer sighting plane thus increasing accuracy. As for the Rem. M7 Ill leave that up to you, there are other make rifles out there with iron sights. Lawdog

Ramrod · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2004, 11:39:04 AM »

The Remington sights are a bit coarse for varmints. Unless you plan on changing them, you might be better off scoping it. A good peep would be a big improvement, and as it also lengthens the sighting plane, it negates the need for a long barrel.

whodowl · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2004, 02:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

The Remington sights are a bit coarse for varmints. Unless you plan on changing them, you might be better off scoping it. A good peep would be a big improvement, and as it also lengthens the sighting plane, it negates the need for a long barrel.

I really don't know that much about centerfire rifles. Why would Remington put coarse sights on a gun like the Mod 7 223? I thought it was suppose to be a long range gun. I mean, if the sights ain't no good for that, why bother, i don't understand. Remingtons are all I've ever owned except for an old Greenbug 410 I had as a kid.

Thanks also, Lawdog, I really don't know other brands to look at except the Savage, dunno about Ruger and can't afford stuff like Weatherby's. I guess I must be old fashioned or something about the iron sights. Never had a gun without them.

Thanks, Dave

Donaldo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2004, 05:36:15 PM »

This is of course the Bolt Action Rifle site, but you might take a look at the NEF Handi rifle. They are single shot but you can get one in 223, or 22-250, or 243, or the 22 Hornet..... plus you can get additional barrels to fit your frame/receiver. They are in the $200 to $250 range.

Sask_Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2004, 06:40:51 PM »

whodowl,
that sounds like the perfect rifle. my 223 has a 22inch tube and a 3-9 scope. like lawdog said the irons are not the best for shooting small targets at ranges like 150yrds or so. even a 4 power scope would be better.

i shot a coyote yesterday and the 40gr nosler came unglued on it. i think im going to try another bullet.

whodowl · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2004, 03:18:21 AM »

Sask_Hunter.

Thanks for your comment. I like the barrel length for my accuracy range in the field as well as for woods and brush work. I think the mod 7 should make a good field and camp gun.

I had not thought of Nosler's for varmint hunting in a 223, interesting. I was thinking of using OTC varmint rounds in a 40 gn or less as I am interested in minimum hide damage, just from reading the threads here. What overall results have you had with Nosler's on yotes and other animals of that size?

Is it reasonable to ask if there is a cartridge that will produce a small entry wound, break up or excessively mushroom within the animal, and produce no exit wound in a 223? Will a Nosler do that?

Thanks

PA-Joe · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2004, 03:56:05 AM »

If you reload take a look at www.jamescalhoon.com very good bullets. On the Model 7 (I have two) if you have grandchildren you can save a little by purchasing a Youth Model and then buying a full size stock for yourself. That way the kids can use it.

whodowl · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2004, 05:14:24 AM »

PA-Joe.

Thats a great idea on the youth model, thanks! I've been wonderin what to leave my new grandson and to get him started huntin. My daughter and her husband have nothing to do with guns.

My boy and I will probly get started reloading this summer. We are looking around for used equipment now. BTW, thanks for the link.

Dave

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2004, 09:26:53 AM »

whodowl,

Nosler Ballistic Tips, Hornady V-Max and the like work very well on varmints but you have to watch velocity or extreme damage to the pelts can/will accrue. That is why I gave up on the .223 Rem. for a calling cartridge. Range is too close and pelt damage was/is a problem at closer ranges. When the furrier or the buyer starts cutting the price of the pelt by percentage points due to pelt damage I figured it was time to go to a different cartridge. As for Remington putting cheap sights on their Rem. M7 you will have to ask their bookkeepers :twisted: why they did that. Cost cutting! Believe me youll be better off with a good 3-9X 40 or 44mm scope than using those iron sights. Lawdog

whodowl · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2004, 01:48:59 PM »

Lawdog

Yeah, the pelt damage issue still bothers me a lot. Maybe I should forget about the iron sights and look at the other alternatives. There are a lot. That would open up the .204, Hornet, and others, plus other manufacturers. Can't hurt to look.

PA-Joe

I still really like the idea of a youth model and 2 different stocks. My grandson is only 7 months old, but if I'm still around he will be shooting at an early age. :-)

If you guys get the impression I'm confused on this issue, you're right!

Thanks, Dave

Donaldo · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2004, 05:11:22 PM »

You might try the WW econo box 45 JHP loads for the 223. One of the threads just talked about taking a yote with them. Only an entrance hole, no exit, just scrambled insides.

MI VHNTR · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2004, 05:20:21 PM »

I use a Remington M7 in 223 for my main predator hunting rifle. I bought it as a youth model, tossed the youth stock out and added a synthetic stock. I had the rifle DuraCoated with a matte black finish. I also removed the factory sights, since I've put a good scope on the rifle. It's light, easy to handle and shoots very well. MI VHNTR

whodowl · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2004, 07:57:47 PM »

Donaldo,

Thanks for the info on the JHP loads. Not to have an exit hole is more than I would have expected to accomplish. I'll definitely take a looks at these cartridges.

MI HNTR,

Removing the factory sights had not crossed my mind and is sure worth thinking about. I really like the size of the mod 7 for brush and woods work which is where I will hunt most of the time. The 24 and 26" barrels just seemed a little too awkward for the terrain and my limited range.

This project might get off the ground after all. Thanks for all the comments. Dave

PA-Joe · « **Reply #14 on:** December 30, 2004, 03:07:40 AM »

I checked the Remington site and there was a special run of Model Sevens in the new 204. Right now I am using the 223 with Calhoon's bullets in a light gopher load. No pelt damage. You can load the 223 down to 22mag or up to 22-250 levels.

whodowl · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2004, 04:24:04 AM »

PA-Joe

,

Thanks for sharing the information about Calhouns. The web site is not fancy, but there is a lot of good information there. I added it to my favorites and sent my boy a link as well. Looks like he has some good services and products, re-barreling, ballistics charts, downloadable targets, etc. The 19 caliber bullet is neater than a new suit. Never heard of it till now.

We both checked out the Remington site yesterday for info on the 204's. I don't know how we missed it, but I am going back there in a bit.

Did not have the foggiest idea that the 223 could be downloaded to the 22 mag nor uploaded to the 22-250. That really eliminates some agonizing and seals the deal on the 223 decision. The original option for me was the 204, 223, and the Hornet. My boy wanted the 22-250. Heh heh, he is going to be surprised today. :-)

For some reason, the model 7 223's are hard to find right now. Wallyworld is sold out and my local dealers can't get them as well. Dicks, MC Sports, and Sports Authority are not even displaying guns on their websites for some reason, and SA even said they would not take special orders right now. Ozark Guns is advertising them, but I am sure they just drop ship, so that is doubtful also. I am no where close to a Green Mountain store. Think I will try to get one ordered this morning from somebody. Do you think Remington might be discontinuing the 7 LS in the 223?

Man, you've been a big help and I appreicate it.

Dave

Ramrod · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2004, 03:56:42 PM »

Sorry, there is no way on earth you can load a .223 up to 22-250 levels. You are trying to negate the laws of internal ballistics. The .22-250 will always run 300-400 fps faster with max loads. I know because I shoot both. One look at the difference in case size should make this obvious to anyone.

whodowl · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2004, 08:04:34 PM »

Ramrod

,

Thanks very much for that comment... really. I am new to centerfires as previously stated and am in a "larning" mode. What am I misunderstanding here? Thanks, Dave

Quote from: PA-Joe

I checked the Remington site and there was a special run of Model Sevens in the new 204. Right now I am using the 223 with Calhoon's bullets in a light gopher load. No pelt damage. You can load the 223 down to 22mag or up to 22-250 levels.

Ramrod · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2004, 04:13:49 AM »

Well, one thing I can think of is that PA-Joe is making an apples to oranges comparison, maybe a 40 or 45 grain bullet in the .223 compared to a 55 grain .22-250.
P.S. You are also gonna lose 100-200 fps from published velocities with the short barrel of the Model 7. But, for under 200 yards it shouldn't matter.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2005, 01:17:05 PM »

I bought a Mod 7 in 223 when they first came out. My best advice on a Remington these day's, and I've owned and loved them, is buy it. When you get home strip it down to just an action. Send that to a good gun smith and have yourself a good rifle built! Right now I'm being frustrated by my last Remington, a mod 700 ADL in 243 that couldn't put a hole in the barn if you were in the barn!