What Happened to the 9x57 Mauser?

[Advocate]

Researching the possiblity of reboring a military 8x57 to 9x57 Mauser, I have been unable to find almost any reference  to this old caliber. No one appears to make brass or ammo any more. Neither Norma, RWS nor the Old Western Scounger have any reference to brass or ammo, although the even more obscure 9.3x57  is well represented with Normal ammo and brass. How strange.  I have an old 9x57  RWS round I got at a gun show years ago and it was new manufacture at the time so this round was in stock within my lifetime.  

I'm interested in the caliber (2/3 of the way between the .358 Winchester and the .35 Whelen) which is particulalry well suited to intermediate length Mauser mil surp actions  and which trods on the heels of the fabled .35 whelen. I would like to be assured of a supply of correctly stamped brass before I go ahead and take the plunge and do it. I know I can make 9x57 brass from 30-06 and other cases, but I would still like to have a supply of correctly headstamped cases if I decide to take the rife on international hunts, where headstamps have to match the barrel stamping.  

RCBS makes 9x57  dies for more than $100.00.  9.3x57 dies, however, are available from Hornady for about $50.00.  How does it happen that a weird, off the wall chambering like the 9.3x57mm is more plentiful, more economical and more widely distributed than an old favorite like the 9x57?


Anybody  have any insight on this?

[Mikey]

Advocate:  Ummm, are they the same cartridge, just identified two different ways like the 8 x 57 is sometimes called the 7.9 x 57????  Also, can't you make 9x57 brass from the 8mms, just for starters and then find some properly headspaced brass.

Seems that BigBill or one of the others was talking about 're-boring' shot out rifles in military calibers to the next largest bore size and I believe he mentioned the 9x57.  

Was/is the 9.3 x 57 a .36 something bore??  Versus the 9 x 57 at a .35 something bore, or are they actually the same???????  Is the difference between the 9 and 9.3 like the difference between the two different 8mms, the .318 and .323 bores??????

8mm brass is very plentiful these days - would this be a good place to start??  

Sorry about all the questions and no insights.  Mikey.

[sjc1]

Horneber makes 9x57 brass. Some dealers found on the internet do stock it. I do not know who would have loaded ammunition, I have never come across any. I think if you go to the 9x57 you have to reload. Use a search engine and type in obsolete brass or 9x57 and see what you come up with.

[Advocate]

Thank you for your assistance.     Yes, the 9x57 is primarily a handloaded propostiion, which is ok with me. It's just that I would like to have some cases with the correct head stamp if I take the rifle outside the us to hunt in Canada or Africa.  

CH has 9x57 dies for the 40 degree improved chambering which is the one I am most interested in. You can actually die form improved cases from the longer 30-06/.270 cases without having to resort to fire forming. This is an interesting advantage to  all of the 57 mm improved cases, whether 7mm, 8mm, or 9mm.  Might be necessary to have a special trim die made, but it would eliminate the need for fireforming and  would pay for itself very quickly.    

BTW you can also die form .250 Savage AI cases from .243 cases.  

The 9.3x57 handles .366 bullets, of which there are a fair number available, actually: Hawk,  Swift A-Frame, Nosler BP and Partition, Woodleigh, Barnes X, and Speer Hot Cor, as well as some foreign makes.  Norma brass & Ammo are also available.   The 9.3 is kind of an interesting round, but does not have the flexibility of the 9x57, which can use the  huge variety of .358 bullets.

It should be noted that the 9x57 (aka 9mm Mauser)  traditionally shoots .355" diameter bullets. But US  gunsmiths can chamber this round in .358 barrels and you can put a .358 expander ball in 9x57 dies, thereby using .358 bullets.  An AI 9x57 should be fully the equal of the factory .35 Whelen, but would be better suited to the shorter, intermediate length military mauser rifles.

[Graycg]

I've got a 9X56 Mannlicher, make the cases out of 8X57 brass and fortunately for me, bore is on the bigger side and at .3575.  Only shoot lead bullets out of it, rifle is model 1908 MS.  

9X57 and 9X56 are closer to between 35 rem and 358 rather than between 358 and 35 Whelen in power, if you stick to originally designed pressures. What you said is true on case length with regards to between 358 and 35W.

[Advocate]

Well you're quite right about the 9x57 being in the .358 WCF neighborhood with original pressures. But why not go to modern pressures if you have a good modern strong M-98?  The 9x57 should beat the .358 WCF by at least 100 fps or more.  An AI 9x57 case would have almost the same capacity as the regular .35 Whelen.

[Steve L]

Advocate, why not 9.3? The x62, 63 and 72R rounds are catching on in the U.S. making components more available and at a cheaper price.

The bullet selection should only get better but realisticaly there are enough to choose from for any job the medium bores were intended.

[Advocate]

SteveL:  You're right about the increasing popularity of the 9.3 and about the availability of brass and bullets.  I may end up going that way, but for the moment I prefer the 9x57 (.358) for reasons of bullet flexibility.  1st, you can use economical .357 magnum cast and jacketed pistol bullets for plinkers. This option is not available for the 9.3.  Second, I like the idea of the 180 grain and 200 grain Barnes X bullets for long range deer hunting. You can get approximately 2,900 fps with the 180 grain X bullet and that makes a very good long range deer load. The 200 grainer is not far behind.  

With the 9.3, there are no cheap practice bullets available and no existing company that I can find even makes 9.3 mm molds. NEI cataloged them, but is for the moment out of business.  Hawk bullets does make 200 grain round tips, but they are not spitzers and are not as good for long range.  Most of the good bullets start at 250 grains, inlcuding the Barnes X, Nosler Ballistic TIp, Swift A-Frame and Woodleigh.  If all you hunt are larger animals the 9.3 is best. But I will probably use the 180 Barnes X spitzer for deer more than anything else. I have a .338 Win Mag long throated for 250 and 275 grain bullets that I use for the big stuff and the 9mm/9.3 mm is essentially a toy to play with...at least for the moment. Some toys, however,  become our new obsessions and achieve "most favored firearm" status.

On the other hand, I could just stick with the .358 Winchester either in standard or AI form.  Lots of cheap brass and it's pretty good with the 180 & 200 grain bullets.  Still, what's the point of a medium bore rifle if you can't  (or don't) shoot classic  heavy medium bore type  bullets?  For that reason and because of its superiority over the .358 Winchester with heavier bullets,  I keep gravitating back to the 9x57 Mauser set up for .358 caliber bullets.  

Thanks for your comments, SteveL.  I enjoyed reading them and responding to them. Best.

[Haywire Haywood]

Anyone know where I can find some 9x57 load data other than Stevespages?  I'm on the hunt and come up bare.

thanks,
Ian

[whippet]

As 9,3x57 are quite common here in Sweden try Norma for load data
 http://www.norma.cc/sida/eng/index.html

Good Luck
Whippet

[whippet]

Oops sorry
Missed that there where no ".3" in 9x57

Not a a very good first post :oops:

Whippet

[TNrifleman]

A hunting friend of mine has a Mauser sporter in 9X57. It is a nice rifle and a great hnuting cartridge. He makes cases from 8X57 brass with RCBS dies. They turn out quite nice. He has also used various '06 type cases with good results using a RCBS trim die.