A Long Journey.

[De41mag]

Well, its been a year and a half since recieving my 44mag. barrel on my H&R Ultra Varmit. A lot has happened since then. Have had 4 different scopes put on this barrel, two sets of scope rings, high Zee rings and med Zee rings. Have tried 180gr, 200gr, 210gr, 265gr and 300gr, in jacketed bullets. Tried 250 Keith plain base and 265gr. RNFP gas check. At first the 265gr. GC's showed very promising. But second time out had a Tasco 4X40mm, the scope lost it's nitrogen. Throwed that one away. Then installed a Leupold 4X33mm, no scope problems after that. After about a year ordered a Simmons ATECH 2.8X10X44. Scope started shifting foward under the recoil. Fred M from Canada said that it might be to heavy. Gave it some thought, then installed a Leupold 6X36mm fixed power.
All this time trying to get a jacketed bullet to shoot decent. Had some Speer 300gr. SP's that a fellow gave me some while back. All the other bullet weights failed to group with any consistency. Had 48 out a box of 50. Loaded them ahead of  H-110. This looked pretty good. Before this, sold the Ultra stocks to Tim (quickdtoo) and ordered the syn. stocks to lighten the weight some.
So after all this time and effort and money, the last two trips to the range, this rifle really started putting in some good groups. Today went to the range and  I was suprised. The 300gr. Speers were grouping 1.5 inches for five shots, time and time again. (100yds.) Then went to the 265gr. GC's, five shots 1.5 inches. Although 1.5 in. low .5 in to the right. but still very good groups. Went back to the Speers, same group size but dead on.
Also this rifle will group the 250 Keiths ahead of 9.5gr. of Unique into 2 in. groups.
So after all this time, this rifle is doing what I wanted it to do when I bought it. To be able to shoot a pistol caliber at almost bolt action, bottle neck cartridge accuracy.  :grin:
There were many times I wanted to sell it, to give up on it, Even when I sold the stocks to Tim, I was thinking about selling it.
But after 19 years of reloading, this has been one trip.
You fellas on this forum told me not to give up on this rifle. And you were right. This is one shooting little rifle. And you know.... the more I look at this rifle, the more beautiful it looks.
So thanks to everyone on this forum for all your help. As Tim wrote in his letter when he sent the money order for the stocks."THEY'RE GREAT LITTLE RIFLES"

Dennis  

[Duce]

Dennis: Good job, hope you had some fun and learned a little along the way. Duce:

[quickdtoo]

Dennis, way to go! Glad all your effort has finally paid off.... :-D

BTW, your laminated stock is now proudly wearing an SB2 handi frame(from BBF) and a .45-70 barrel... :lol:

Tim

[safetysheriff]

D4M'

First off, my compliments on sticking with the project.   Very good, sir.

Secondly, I would not substitute a syn' stock on any Handi' because th wooden ones are so conducive to good balance, and they help absorb recoil which keeps scopes in place to some degree.   I'd recommend some strips of fine-grained sand paper between the scope and rings as well, with the paper side facing the scope and the grit biting into the rings.

I use three rings on all my Handi's where there's enough room on the scope to do so.   Only my '06 with a compact 4x is set up with just two rings on it -- being a Handi, of course.   My other brands of rifles have had only two rings by necessity.

I would suggest you keep on looking for a somewhat lighter jacketed bullet if going after whitetails.    The 300 gr' bullet may not open up enough to give you a quick harvest, and it may give you a deer that is tagged by someone else if hunting private property.

In the end, any further work on this rifle will also be rewarded.  

Well done.

[De41mag]

Thanks Duce and Tim;
Safetysherrif, your advice is going to be well taken. Just put some new friction paper in the rings this morning, the other might be getting worn down. Am checking each time returning from the range for scope shifting by using dial calipers between the scopes center where the adj. are.
I believe your right that a 300gr. might not expand much and could result in a lost animal. That's why I was searching for a jacketed bullet to shoot out of this gun. Even though the 265gr. RNFP-Gas Checks shoot very well, I was thinking of the same thing about no expanison with those cast bullets. The deer here in the southeast are rather small.
But just to get a jacketed bullet to shoot well has me excited at the moment. Might try some 240gr. JSP Magtech bullets from Midway they seem very well priced. Those Speer 300 grainers are $9.72 for a box from Midsouth, and that is for only fifty / box. :eek:
Again thanks guys, for your help.
Good Shooting.

Dennis  

[JPH45]

Glad you hung in there with it, I know you went through a lot of soul searching about keeping that rifle. As to bullets, any of those you are shooting will kill a deer just fine. The jacketed are designed to mimmick cast bullet performance according to the makers and two Speer 270 grainers did just that for me last year. I am going to be using Hornadys 300 XTP this year, in my 44. The wound channels of the 270's showed absolutely no expansion, but did the trick never the less. It borders on double speak when on one hand we are told that cast bullets will work just fine, then we are told that jacketed bullets that don't expand won't get the job done. Nonsense. Having studied the ballistics of 240 through 300 grainers heavily last year, I still think that the Speer 270 is a tough bullet to beat, in a 44 rifle it offers the best balance of velocity, energy, and trajectory. I am using the Hornady 300 only because I want to see how it performs, otherwise I would be using the 270. Good luck this season, JP

[De41mag]

JPH;

Where have you been?
I was going to post has anyone heard from JPH45. Good to hear from you again.
SS was right, I think I need something to open up a little bit upon impact for the 44. But since you live in Alabama also, have you had quick kills with that 270gr. bullet? I was hoping that 300 grainer would just open up a tad. But from everyone's opinion including yours, that probably wont happen. Did you have to track your deer a good distance?
Anyway, the accuracy from this bullet is really good, almost to a point of being uncanny. Or maybe it's just I've working so long  with it that, I'm surprised that this is happining.
Again, good to hear from you, and thanks for all your help. Keep posting.

Dennis

[safetysheriff]

D4M'

If you want to see a smallish, Southern deer go down quicklly, I would think that a 200 gr' Nosler jhp's, or one of the 180 or 210 gr' Remington jhp's would give you the best results.    You should get a relatively fast load out of that .44 mag' and it should open up much better than the heavier projectiles.   The opening of a copper jacket will aid in bleeding out the deer more quickly, and you'll stand a better chance of putting your tag on it -- especially in a public hunting area where others may be near by!

I admit, that because I practice a fair amount with a revolver, which of course is a repeater,  I sometimes hunt deer with a 265 gr' hard-cast.    But I would not hunt with any such out of a .44 mag' Handi'.....regardless of the kind of rifling it had.    Because of the velocity, and the structure of whitetails, I'd go with a 210 gr' Remington (if accurate out of my rifle) for deer hunting -- even the Big Ones -- out of a single-shot rifle.    

Good hunting.

[handirifle]

de41mag
Glad to see you hung in there.  I gotta admit when I started reading your post I was sure it was not gonna have a happy ending.  I went through the same thing with one son's handi 223 and all of a sudden that puppy decided it loves the Win white box 45gr stuff.  I mean like 3/4" 5 shot groups consistant.

I was just at a gun shop yesterday and sadly watched a guy trade in a synthetic handi in 243.  Say's he couldn't get it as accurate as he liked.  He only used 95gr nosler bullets.

So sad to trade in such a nice rifle.  He traded it in for a Ruger 10/22SS of all things.  Oh well to each his own.

I'd had thoughts of a synthetic 243 as a mountain deer rifle.  it was either that or a synthetic '06.

Congrats again, to you.

[De41mag]

Safetysheriff;

That was my original intent, to use a light jacketed bullet, 180, 200, 210gr. but could not get any to shoot. The Nosler does sound good in 200gr. also have been looking at the Remington 180gr. JHP, which Midway states is a 430 dia. and the other Rem. bullets are 429 dia.
Handirifle;
You know, if one or two posts were negitive when I originally posted "It's not fun anymore", I would have got rid of that rifle right then. But there was not one negitive post, all positive. So all the thanks goes out to you guys, having support like this with people with the same interest.
Fred M;
If you read this post, Thanks  for telling me about using a scope that might  be to heavy. The smaller, lighter fixed power works great and to me looks better and less weight.

Dennis  

[handirifle]

de41mag
Just a thought, thy mic'ing the dia of the bullets that do well and comparing those to the ones that do not.  Might be something, might be not.

[mag41vance]

One thing I've been doing on scope mounting is:
lightly sanding the scope where it makes contact with the rings, and also rough the inside of the rings as well. Then clean the sanded areas with alcohol, then apply a thin coat of fletch-tite archery cement to the scope and seat in the rings, and secure the scope.
 I also put witness marks on the scope to check periodically to assure it hasn't shifted.

 Now if NEF would make a .41 barrel, we could go through the whole process of load testing all over again.

[JPH45]

Here's my experience,

I shot two deer last year with the Speer 270 at a muzzle velocity of 1570 fps. One deer was shot at about 20 yards, the other about 40. Both animals ran about 30 yards and collasped. The holes were caliber size through, and the animals bleed out well.

I switched to a 265 grain cast bullet at the amazing velocity of 1275 fps. That is for practical purposes a reproduction of a 265 grain bullet from a 4" revolver. I shot two deer with this load. One through the liver at about 30 yards (my bad), one through the heart at about 20 yards. The liver shot deer ran about 40 yards, fell and expired in less than 2 minutes. The liver was completely torn in half. The heart shot deer ran about 30 yards and expired. In both cases the wound channel was exactly as described in the guns rags for the last 40 years when describing 44 cast bullet wounds, caliber size hole in one side out the other, resulting in a well bleed animal.

These were the first deer I have personally seen shot with the 44 mag, and I was impressed. Kills were as quick and clean as any I have seen from any high power rifle at those ranges including cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag and the 30-06.

The heavier 44 mag bullets (greater than 250 grains) are most likely designed forr use in the 444. Speer all but says so. However, the designs are such that they mimmick cast bullet perfomance very well. If your hunting involves ranges beyond 60 yards, I would highly reccomend the heavier weights. As distance increases, velocity loss is greater with lighter bullets and while a 200 grainer may be impressive at 30 yards, its energy and momentum are less at longer ranges making full penetration less likely, and that is what we are after. Keep the bullet weight up to insure penetration, as well as retained weight if heavy bone is struck. John Linebaugh speaks of shooting an antelope doe at 100 yards with a 45 caliber 300 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 900 fps. He says the bullet entered in just forward of her hip and exited on the far shoulder. I would expect the exact performance form a 300 grain 44 bullet. I seriously doubt a 200 grainer would do that, and certainly not on a 160 pound or heavier deer.

You may want to spend some money on Noslers 250 Partition. This bullet may be the better of both worlds, but given the performance I saw last year from the Hornady 180 XTP in my 357 Maximum, I am betting that the 300 XTP is the way to go. Hornady also makes a 240 XTP that would sure stand investigating as well.