Author Topic: Does anyone else have a venomous hatred of muzzle brakes? (Read 1237 times)

Questor · « **on:** July 21, 2004, 10:55:32 AM »

I can't stand muzzle brakes because of the earsplitting noise. Whenever somebody at the range starts shooting one, I leave. How about you?

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2004, 11:05:58 AM »

You don't wear hearing protection?

?? :eek:

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2004, 12:45:05 PM »

My club has a rule - No shooting .50BMG's or rifles with brakes unless you first notify everyone on the line - and if anyone objects, no shooting them at all.

Carl l. · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2004, 01:18:27 PM »

I don't have muzzle breaks on any of my rifle's, but I think any man or woman should be able to shoot them if they want too. Hearing protection is the key. Carl L.

Zachary · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2004, 02:27:51 PM »

I used to install muzzle brakes on most of my rifles. They were Vais Muzzle brakes and, believe it or not, they really were not all that noisy. However, I later installed some Answer Products muzzle brakes and they are noisy as heck. Do I have a hatred for them? No, but I don't love them as much as I used to.

BTW, when hunting, you really don't need hearing protection with the Vais Brake, at least in standard cartridges. However, with the Answer Products MB, you better have hearing protection or else loose your hearing - quick.

Zachary

RaySendero · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2004, 03:39:55 PM »

Quote from: Questor

I can't stand muzzle brakes because of the earsplitting noise. Whenever somebody at the range starts shooting one, I leave. How about you?

Me too!!!

Won't have one on any rifle I'll ever own. Don't want anyone with muzzle brake shooting around me at range!

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2004, 04:00:41 PM »

If you shot Muzzle brakes some where else other than the range you might like them.

For example I think the most appropriate place for a muzzle brake is on the end of a heavy barrel 22-250 shooting gophers and prairie dogs with a high magnifications scope....you will never get a better view of the red mist effect of V-max hitting at over 3500 fps!!!!! Awesome!!!

RaySendero · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2004, 04:00:58 PM »

Quote from: Omaha-BeenGlockin

You don't wear hearing protection??? :eek:

You don't seem to have a clue what the issue is on this topic!

Several years ago a friend and I when to the range. He pulls out a 300 Weatherby - 26" barrel with muzzle brake. We both shot it some and it was quite loud. He would step up to the bench and shoot while I was back off the line some 15yds at my truck and vice versa. However, I moved up behind him and about two steps to his right just when he shot. Even with foam ear plugs my ears HURT and were ringing the rest of the day. I not only could hear the blast - I felt it hit me! The blast actually pushed me back a step! Had someone made a mistake and walked up w/o ear plugs they would probably have lost some of their hearing. I can't imagine what this would do to a PH guiding my friend on a hunt because that's right where they usually stand to back you up!

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2004, 04:13:09 PM »

Interestingly, some of the African coutries forbid the use of muzzle brakes to protect professional hunters and trackers.

Judson · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2004, 04:22:18 PM »

What gives brakes a bad name is the porting all the way around. A well designed brake will have no ports on the bottom this is the problem.
When ported on the bottom even off hand the blast hits the ground and is reflected back at you and off the bench it is horrendous! The brake design I use has no porting on the bottom and is no worse for the shooter then a rifle with a barrel 2.5" shorter, which is the length of the brake. However if you are watching a guy shoot do not step forward of him or you get the full effect. One big advantage of this style brake is that your cross hairs or sights never leave the target so you can call your shots as you see where the bullet hits. When in Africa and using this style brake on a rifle which with out it would have around 60 pounds of recoil, ( a similar weight 3006 would have 18) I was able to call every shot. This is a big pluss if something runs off, often seeing where you hit determines how you follow up. In my case it did not matter as nothing went any where.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2004, 05:56:48 PM »

Depends on the gun----none on a bolt action---if the recoil is that bad---you need a bigger gun---as in weight wise.

Wouldn't have a short barreled AR-15 without a brake or flash hider.

As for ear splitting noises---quit being so cheap and get some decent ear protection--have been using Peltor products recently----they're excellent.

That way---what others bring to the range is no big deal----that enough clue?

?

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2004, 07:18:45 PM »

Maybe the key is to be partially deaf already. I double plug with foam and 29dB peltors and still excuse myself when a magnum rifle with muzzle brake is discharged.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2004, 07:37:59 PM »

I dislike brakes and the extra noise they produce. I've never found a brake that worked but didn't increase the noise level for everyone else on the line. Some are better than others but they alter the direction of the muzzle gasses and that's where the noise is.. It is worse on the covered ranges I frequent but even in open shooting areas the noise can be damaging to bystanders.. The rules everywhere I shoot is 'no plugs, leave'. Also I have never felt the need.. A flash hider is a different beasty. They are not trying to alter the recoil effect, simply dispersing the flare of hot gas at the muzzle. I a fight that can make a difference.

Zachary · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2004, 02:39:44 AM »

It is very true that different muzzle brakes have different noise levels. I have a 7mm Rem Mag with a vais MB, and it is actually rather quiet for a MB. The last time I was at the range (which was a while ago), there was a guy that had a .223, I guess those AR-15 semi auto types. Anyway, it had a MB and that little gun was SOOO LOUD and the blast was SOOO MUCH that I couldn't shoot my groups! And I was thinking, all that noise and blast from such a little itty bitty cartridge like the .223? :?

BTW, my really big pet peves about shooting at the range is when people shoot those AR-15 type semi-auto rifles and the little .223 cartridge flies across to the next shooter's table. I had one guy that had his shells hit me almost 50% of the time - that's just way too much. In fact, I was wearing eye protection, and one of the .223 cases SOMEHOW got lodged right between the left side of my glasses and my face - right next to my eye! I never realized how hot these cases get right after being fired because the case actually burned me! And another case actually CUT me!

Let me tell you, I respect everyone, and if you like AR-15s, then God Bless you, but I hate being on the right of the guy that is shooting one.

Zachary

Dirtysteve · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2004, 04:30:11 AM »

I had a friend that had one put on a Interarms 300 mag. The first time to the range he actually blew my cleaning patches off my bench to the right of him. That was the most ignorant, loud gun I have ever shot around. I personally have no use for them. People who have them say when your in the field you don't noticed the noise. Well I say in the field you won't notice the recoil either so take the damn thing off and save my hearing!

Mauser · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2004, 04:38:10 AM »

I don't have a hatred for brakes but I wouldn't want to hunt with someone who had one on anything larger than a 22 LR. They are obnoxiously loud. If I were a (rich) outfitter I wouldn't guide anyone with one.

They really only have become an issue because guys are buying these nuclear magnums that have much more recoil than they can handle and much more range than they can ethically use. Another bad trend is the overly lightweight guns that turn a 30/06 into a monster.

I don't know when the 8 to 9 lb 30/06 (with scope) became either inadequate or burdensome. I must have missed the memo that the old standards with wooden stocks don't work anymore.

crazyjjk · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2004, 05:46:46 AM »

Quote from: Questor

I can't stand muzzle brakes because of the earsplitting noise. Whenever somebody at the range starts shooting one, I leave. How about you?

What? What? Did you say something about the Muskie Lakes. You have to speak louder as I can't here anymore from shooting next to guys with muzzle brakes. :-D :-D :eek:

Lawdog · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2004, 12:04:34 PM »

As "Coyote Hunter" stated our gun club too has a rule about the use of muzzle brakes. If anyone on the line objects you are not allowed to shoot. Great rule but it was a compromise to the complete ban that many members wanted. I would have a brake on a rifle for any reason, PERIOD. Some will try to say just use hearing aids and that solves the problem. They dont know what they are talking about. Are they going to wear hearing aids while hunting? Hardly. Are they going to supply aids to those that they hunt with? I dont think so. Sorry Zachary, but I checked with Vais Brakes and they told me that their brakes didnt reduce noise but re-directed it away from the shooter. Re-directed noise has to go somewhere and that means the people around you catch it right in the ears.

It is well documented that brakes harm hearing even when wearing shooting aids. If you cant handle the recoil get a smaller rifle(or pistol). It is better to make sure that the stock fits you and that the rifle is of proper weight for the cartridge you plan on shooting. Lastly there are other ways of handling recoil. Try mercury recoil reducers, they work. Just ask the professional sporting clay and trap shooters or anyone that has them in their rifles. All my big bores(from .340 Weatherby up to .450 Rigby) have mercury recoil reducers in them and they work. Do I HATE muzzle brakes, NO. I just dont see the need to loose my hearing when I dont have to. Lawdog

Zachary · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2004, 01:39:32 PM »

[quote="Lawdog" Sorry Zachary, but I checked with Vais Brakes and they told me that their brakes didnt reduce noise but re-directed it away from the shooter. Re-directed noise has to go somewhere and that means the people around you catch it right in the ears.
Lawdog[/quote]

Well, I must say that I shouldn't be too surprised about that. After all, when I shoot my guns, I'm not standing next to them, but rather behind them. However, if the Vais MB is quieter than other other MBs to me while I'm shooting, then they must be quieter than other MBs to others while they are next to me. I'm not saying it's a significant difference, but there must be a difference. The principal must be the same. I just know that my other MBs (Answer Products) is much louder when I'm behind shooting it.

BTW, the reason why the Vais MB is quieter or, as you put it (re-directs the noise) is because there are holes in front of the actual brake, not just on its sides. As such, the blast, and thus noise, also goes forward. Accordingly, the Vais MB is not as "effective" as other MBs, but its a bit quieter. Is it quiet? No, of course not, but it is definately quieter than other brakes, and I think that the bystanders would notice some differences as well since the MB has additional ports in the front of the MB.

That notwithstanding, I have since moved away from the installation of MBs. The main reason for that is that I have learned to control my flinch. Do I still flinch? Yes, but it's really all mental, and I'm still working on it.

Zachary

RaySendero · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2004, 01:40:59 PM »

Quote from: Mauser

......nuclear magnums........

LOL - "Nuclear Magnums"

Good one! I'm going to remember that one!

longwinters · « **Reply #20 on:** July 22, 2004, 02:45:27 PM »

One good thing about shooting next to someone with a MB is that, at least up here in the Upper Penninsula, the blast blows the mosquitoes away.

Long

leverfan · « **Reply #21 on:** July 22, 2004, 08:58:35 PM »

I've decided to stick with guns and cartridges that I can handle without a brake. A few shooters with muzzle brakes have gotten me to move away from them at the range, but that was mostly because of the slap of the shock wave that hits you along with the noise. Shooting ranges come with lots of little draw backs, like flying brass, or shooters without spotting scopes that need to walk down range after every shot string. Those things bug me more than muzzle brakes. As long as everyone is being safe, I don't complain.

If a hunting partner had a brake on his or her gun, I wouldn't be sticking too close to them, though, that's for sure.

mountainview · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2004, 07:40:36 AM »

If I can't get the range officer to get the person shooting w/ a brake to move, then I do. To the responses that "then get hearing protection...", don't bank on it. I have tinnitus and recruitment courtesy of a muzzle brake equipped Striker at the next bench over. Get hearing protection you say, I was wearing muffs and plugs (30 NRR on both).

The noise is bad enough but the shock wave coming out in all directions passes through hearing protection with relative ease, only takes one shot and unless a medical miracle occurs, you too will be an inductee into the tinnitus club with recruitment as a likely added bonus.

Most people shooting brakes don't have a problem with them, and given the physics of expanding gases, the minimal discomfort they experience is easily explained. But I would like to have the temerity to suggest sitting at a bench next to a person shooting a brake for a change. For some real excitement and a quick way to damage your hearing permanently, sit at a bench next to someone shooting a short barreled handgun chambered for a centerfire and equipped with a brake.

I am not against the concept of brakes per se but IMO too many shooters who use brakes seem to giggle and chuckle about "how the benches clear when I shoot my brake" and are indifferent as to the effects on others who also want to enjoy a day at the range, hopefully without induction into the tinnitus/recruitment/hearing loss club. The same shooters also seem to have the attitude that "hey I paid my range fee, I can shoot whatever I **^&^% well please and why should I care what other shooters experience".

Just my thoughts on the matter.