30-06 Canadian whitetail load

[Buckfever]

Last year I was lucky enough to get a nice buck shooting a 30-06, 180gr
Swift-A-Frame.  Worked to a tee in fact maybe too good.  It was an angle shot thru the liver into the shoulder from a tree stand.  It ruined the whole left front quarter.  I have been thinking about trying the Interbond or Accubond.  Any thoughts.  It was my first trip to Canada and I was told the deer are large, hell large they are 250-300lbs they are massive.  I wonder if I might have confused hunting in Canada with hunting in Africa!
My bolt Mtn. Rifle is a sweet tree stand and still hunter.  The jury is still out on what bullet I should use.  Thanks for the help.  Buckfever

[Steelhead]

A Nosler Partition is NEVER a wrong decision. Don't usually do TOO much meat damage and I have yet to recover one from a deer.

[longwinters]

I concure.  A person really cannot go wrong with the Nosler partition.  I am working up loads for Hornady Interbonds right now.  But I do not know if I would use them on really big animals a/c of what I have read on penetration tests.  Other bonded bullets would do a better job than the Interbond both in accuracy as well as penetration.  However they do expand very well and retain most of their mass.

long

[TScottO]

I think you are already using the best choice of bullets. There are alot of good bullets out there but I don't see them being better than the A-Frame.

It's good to see people using good quality premium bullets.

Be Safe,
Scott

[Lawdog]

Buckfever,

I use the Nosler 165 gr. Partitions in my .30-06 on Mule Deer that are every big and bigger than those Whitetails in Canada.  Never a problem with meat loss and as already stated recovery of bullets is hard as most all exit.  As far as the Swift-A-Frame goes it is not the first time I have heard or seen that happening.  And it doesn't take a large deer either.  I have personally seen a guy destroy the front quarter on a 140 pound Blacktail using that same 180 gr. A-Frame out of a .30-06.  Partitions work, PERIOD.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[safetysheriff]

I'd go with 'plain vanilla' Hornady spire points (no interbonds) that are 150 grain inter-locs -- because you don't need a premium bullet out of an '06 to drill a white tail.     They just aren't that tough.    The biggest one that Canada has got will fall to a decent 150 grain bullet that is moving fast enough.     Plain old core-lokt's have been doing it for years....because they will reliably open up and dump the energy in the deer.    

If I was going elk or moose or grizzly hunting I would contemplate the use of a Swift A-Frame, possibly.     But out of an '06 I doubt that I'd need it at a reasonable distance and with proper bullet placement.  

Take care.

[MGMorden]

I've never understood so much frettin over bullet section personally.  It might make a difference on larger animals that I haven't hunted (elk, moose, etc), but on whitetail I can guarantee you that with .30-06 you don't need anything too specialized to bring them down.  For years I used plain vanilla 150gr Winchester PowerPoints and any deer that I took I shot at never got away (and never traveled more than 30 yards).  Now that I'm handloading I've been concentrating moreso on working up loads for accuracy (and moreso on my 6.5x55), but in both my 6.5x55 and .30-06 the bullets I'll be heading out with with be Speer Hot-Cor's (relatively plain-jane and cheap).  I seriously doubt that a whitetail will tell the difference between one of those and a fancier bullet, ESPECIALLY in a round with the power level of the '06.

[Coyote Hunter]

...the [.30-06] bullets I'll be heading out with with be Speer Hot-Cor's (relatively plain-jane and cheap).  I seriously doubt that a whitetail will tell the difference between one of those and a fancier bullet, ESPECIALLY in a round with the power level of the '06.

I would agree.  But take a .30-378 and a standard cup-and-core bullet and the bullet can act like a varmint bullet does in smaller game.

The 7mm 160g Speer Grand Slam have worked very well elk in my experience, but I plan to switch to a true bonded core bullet for elk.  Perhaps the Swift Scirocco, more likely the Swift A-Frame, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or North Fork.  The Hornady Interbond and Nosler Accubond have thinner jackets than I would prefer, so I won't be trying them.

If I was hunting Whitetail, I'd probably just stick with the Grand Slams.  Probably should for elk, too, but after 20+ years I'm ready to try something new.

[mellow_1]

I live in Saskatchewan and I have to say the 30-06 is a fine choice. The only thing I would recomend for you sir is give it another chance . If you have other rifles they may work well also .243 is good too. Anyway you look at it 30-06 is good though.
Happy shootin.... hope our lame government doesn't scare you away with all there anti gun non-sense.

[Big Tom]

The severe quartering away angle adds to the expansion and meat loss. I have shot lots of bigger whitetails with the 30.06 in the same geo area. I would recommend 150-165 gr Nosler Partitions or Comb. Tech. Failsafes(Winchester) for reloaders....through the lungs every time. :grin:

[Zachary]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the barnes X (or actually the new Barnes TSX - Triple Shock).

I have found that this bullet, generally speaking, does not cause excessive meat damage because, I think, rather than "mushrooming and pushing through," it "rotates and cuts through."  I have used this bullet on deer and hogs.

Zachary

[jhm]

Zack :  I believe that all bullets have a cutting rotation imparted on them  and thats controlled by the rifle not the bullet, the same weight bullet fired at the same vel. will have aprox. the same rotational speed at the target granted some will slow down at impact  due to bullet tip construction but they will all have some pretty good zip left in them,      JIM

[Zachary]

That's true of course - all bullets rotate because of the rifling.  However, while conventional bullets, although they all still rotate, are like a rotating mushroom, the X bullet has those 4 petals and kinda cuts.

I think that, since the X bullet upon impact has less surface area than the typical mushroom bullet, that's why the X bullets penetrate better.  Of course another reason is that, sometimes at  very close ranges, the x petals break off, and it's kinda like a mini-solid - kinda like the Nosler Partition...it starts off as a mushroom, but at close range, the front half comes apart, and you are left with a mini-solid of sorts.

Zachary

[Lawdog]

Zachary,

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the barnes X (or actually the new Barnes TSX - Triple Shock).

I was going to mention the Barnes TSX bullets but I haven't yet shot anything with them.  I think that may be the reason why no one else has said anything either.  I know the old X and XLC bullets work but they can be tricky when it comes to accuracy and can take some playing around with before the best accuracy is achieved.  So far I like the results I am getting on paper with the TSX bullets but the true test will be on game.

As for using low cost bullets I don’t because I like to control the amount of meat loss.  Some bullets, as stated, can and do act like a varmint bullet on deer size game.  To me bullets like the Ballistic Tip, SST, and the other “plastic tipped” bullets don’t hold up consistently and tent to break upon hitting the deer(and sometimes not reaching the vitals while doing tremendous damage to the meat).  Practice with cheap bullets but use a premium bullet for hunting.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[Big Tom]

I think a lot of the banter here last year about copper fouling has scared several of us(like me) from using Barnes in their reloading. :?

[Zachary]

I'm certainly no spokesman for Barnes, but I do acknowledge that there appears to be more copper fouling with the X bullet than with conventional bullets.  I think that this is because of the hardness of the 100% copper bullet.  However, at least from what I understand, the new TSX has those three rings which cause less friction in the barrel, and thus less copper fouling.  Again, I haven't shot these new loads to either confirm or deny.

That notwithstanding, even while the older designed X-bullet displays additional amounts copper fouling, I didn't find it a problem.  Specifically, I usually cleaned between, at the most, 10 shots, and thus copper fouling wasn't a problem.

Still, I certainly understand your point about people being concerned about copper fouling problems, and it appears that, for whatever reason, some barrels retain more copper fouling than others.

Zachary

[Coyote Hunter]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the barnes X (or actually the new Barnes TSX - Triple Shock).
...

Zach -

Both the X/XLC/TSX and CT Failsafe bullets crossed my mind, but I forgot to mention them.  That may be because, in my limited experience, the jury is still out.

The 115g TSX bullets are superbly accurate in my .257 Roberts, but I have not taken any game with them and am not sure I will.  A Swift A-Frame may yet get the nod for a .257 hunting bullet, although I haven't worked up any loads for the A-Frame yet.

The 160g XLC provided excellent accuracy in my 7mm Rem Mag - 3 shot groups often result in two holes at 100 yards, and I keep hoping for a one-hole group.  But their performance on a buck antelope left me disturbed.  I was loading the XLC's to 3020fps and put one through the lungs of the buck at 290 yards.  The buck just stood there, coughing up blood.  A second bullet in the same area put him down, but his head was still up as if he was just resting.  I couldn't appraoch directly so I worked my way around a hill and got a shot at about 100-125 yards, putting a thrid XLC through the heart and finishing a bad job.  Examination of the wond channels showed little evidence of expansion for the first two bullets and I feared they had behaved like FMJ's - penetrating fully but doing minimal damage.  The wound channel of the third bullet showed some signs of expansion, but it was not definitive.

One of the gun rags I subscribe to (Shooting Times, Sept. or Oct., 2002?) ran a comparison of various bullets impacting balistic gelatin at both 3000fps and 2000fps.  One of the bullets used was the 160g 7mm XLC.  Both the XLC and Failsafe bullets lost their petals when impacting at 3000fps and mushroomed perfectly at 2000fps.  Unfortunately, 2000fps corresponds to 625 yards with my 7mm Rem Mag 160g XLC load and over 475 yards with my .257 Roberts 115g TSX load.

By contrast, the A-Frames behaved well at all speeds, with excellent weight retention and expansion.  (IIRC, and I think I do, the A-Frames had the highest weight retention of all bullets.)

That said, I will probably try the .257 Roberts/TSX if I get an antelope tag this year, as I suspect the A-Frame load development will take a back seat to other activities until after Christmas.

[Lawdog]

Coyote Hunter,

The 160g XLC provided excellent accuracy in my 7mm Rem Mag - 3 shot groups often result in two holes at 100 yards, and I keep hoping for a one-hole group. But their performance on a buck antelope left me disturbed. I was loading the XLC's to 3020fps and put one through the lungs of the buck at 290 yards.

No flaming, just asking but don't you think that a 160 g. XLC out of a 7mm Rem. Mag. is just a bit heavy for such a small animal as a Antelope?  It seems to me that is why you didn't get the expansion you expected.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

[Daniel]

That's true of course - all bullets rotate because of the rifling. However, while conventional bullets, although they all still rotate, are like a rotating mushroom, the X bullet has those 4 petals and kinda cuts.

I think this rotational cutting action is mostly a myth. Take a deer for instance. Through the lungs what is it, maybe 14 to 16 inches or so? So, if a rifle has a twist rate of 1 in 10, the bullet's only going to rotate about 1.5 times on it's way through the deer. It seems to me there would be a lot more pushing and shoving things aside than cutting, even with the Barnes. I've heard some people in the past refer to the rotational action of a bullet going through an animal as a "buzzsaw" type affect. I just don't buy it.

As far as the Barnes bullet is concerned, specifically the new TSX, I don't care how it does what it does really. I just know they have worked wonderfully for me. They're accurate, they have great terminal performance and they don't copper foul any more than most conventional bullets. I think they're an excellent choice.

[NH_Hunter]

I would just go with a 150 or 165 hornady interlock or Sierra pro-hunter/gameking.

Deah aint bullit pruf u no!

NH_Hunter

[Coyote Hunter]

No flaming, just asking but don't you think that a 160 g. XLC out of a 7mm Rem. Mag. is just a bit heavy for such a small animal as a Antelope?  It seems to me that is why you didn't get the expansion you expected.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
 

Yes, and no.  The testing done by Shooting Times showed the 7m 160g XLC's open up quickly enough, at least in ballistic gelatin.  I suspect they actually did open up and the petals ripped off.

The reason I used them on antelope was I wanted a test before using them on elk.  After the antelope episode I decided to use "Old Reliable", my 160g Speer Grand Slam load again.

[Zachary]

There's no question that the Speer, as well as any other conventional bullet, whether bonded or not, will generally upon up easier than an X bullet.  Truthfully, I find the X bullet to be too strong for deer (that is, if you use similar weights.)  In a .30-06, for example, I use a 165 grain X on hogs because they penetrate very well.  When I use the same load on a deer, it will always penetrate all the way through the animal.  Yes, I do like full penetration, but I want the bullet to expand fully when it penetrates so that it can leave a large exit wound.  With the X, the exit wound is usually much smaller.

Zachary

[Buckfever]

Zachary, I quit using the trophy bonded bear claw because for deer it would always pass thru but a small exit hole.  Good point, there is such a thing as too much bullet for a deer and that was my concern with the A-Frame.  Looks to me like a Nosler Partion is what I need.   Thanks  Buckfever

[safetysheriff]

Why this long-winded debate???    Am I invisible to you guys?    :oops:    I said, "Hornady!    Interloc!"

Is Hornady one of our sponsors or not?      I'm telling you from personal observation that Hornady's non-interloc't bullets (the 55 gr' spire point out of a .223) will drop 250 lb. deer -- having seen a landowner that I know do it a number of times!      I load his ammo using these bullets because of what I read in an article called "Out of bounds rounds" some years ago in a Handloader's Digest.    The heavier, interloc't bullets have got to be even better at it, if the right weight of bullet is chosen for the caliber.  

I vote for the 150 gr' Hornady spire point if its accurate out of your rifle.........for any whitetail or mulie' deer, anywhere in North America.     Milo Hansen took his big buck with a .308 -- and a 150 gr' bullet I believe.     That was a contest-winning deer!    :eek:

The point is, the .30-06 can drive a 150 gr' spire point to over 2950 fps and that bullet will deliver the punch, if your rifle shoots accurately with it.

By the way: I want a little more respect!      :lol:

SS'

[Buckfever]

SafetySheriff, My hunting buddy is a Hornady fan and has great results, both reliable expansion and accuracy.  I think the company depends a little more on word of mouth than the others who have advertising as a mainstay.  The respect issue was duely noted.  Thanks  Buckfever

[safetysheriff]

Buckfever'

Thanks for that last post.    My color is now coming back and my pulse is down below 175.   :eek:     My blood pressure has dropped to 198 over 125....and the nurse says I'm heading in the right direction.    

She says the doctor thinks I may survive!     :grin:

You saved my life!     :-D

I owe you and your very wise and understanding partner a big "Thanks".

Take care.

[Coyote Hunter]

Why this long-winded debate???    Am I invisible to you guys?    :oops:    I said, "Hornady!    Interloc!"

I used a 7mm 162g Hornady BTSP to take my first elk over 20 years ago.  It hit a near-side rib dead center, expanded to .593" and when we recovered it from under the hide on the off side it weighted 77.2g (a tad under 48%).  

The next year I switched to 160g Speer Grand Slams.  It was 20 years before I recovered a Grand Slam, and that one had taken out both shoulder joints on a 5x5 bull elk.  All others had penetrated completely.

I have enough Grand Slams loaded up to last me a long time, but when they are gone - or I decide to shot prairie dogs with them- I will switch to a true premium, bonded-core bullet - the Swift A-Frame, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or the North Fork.

Such bullets are not needed for whitetail, but my hunting is for mulies and elk, often at the same time.

[Lawdog]

Coyote Hunter,

I completely agree with you on this.  When I am hunting Mule Deer(or even Blacktails because around here you find both) I usually am hunting Black Bears or Elk at the same time.  The last thing a hunter wants is a bullet that will not retain most of it's weight and not give you a good exit wound.  Entrance wounds don't bleed enough to leave a blood trail.  Ever a .45 caliber entrance wound will close up enough not to leave a trail that a hunter can follow without dogs.  I use Hornady bullets for target practice because they are cheaper and have about the same POI as Partitions.  If you are going to be hunting critters bigger than deer or ones that can bite back then use a premium bullets.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog