Author Topic: Savage 222/20 (Read 1149 times)

ras308 · « **on:** March 25, 2004, 08:43:58 AM »

I have a model 24F, .222 over 20 gauge. I have taken this rifle to a couple of different gunsmiths, with one of them being a custom gun builder, so I would think he has all the tools necessary to determine what the actual problem is. The bullets are tumbling, doesn't matter what grain they are or what load, etc. The rifle was given to me and probably hasn't had 3 boxes shot through it since it was new, he says the barrel is shot out??? The rifling appears to be good with no pitting??? Do I have any options to make this rifle usuable, or is it just useful as a mantle piece??? Thanks.

John Traveler · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2004, 08:54:14 AM »

If your .222 bullets are indeed "tumbling" as in very poor accuracy at all distances, and verified sideways impacts on paper targets, the first place to check is the muzzle crown. If it is damaged, you will never get any respectable accuracy. The gunsnmith should have checked this first.

Secondly, if you handload ammunition, make sure that you use .224" diameter bullets. Bullets are available a couple thousandsths smaller for the .22 Hornet that will give terrible accuracy in the .222 Remington.

Third, as for the barrel being "shot out"... that is HIGHLY unlikely in a single-shot .222 Remington rifle. The caliber is famous for phenomenal barrel life, and as a singleshot, it would almost impossible to fire it fast enough to overheat the barrel.

Take it to a REAL gunsmith for a second opinion.

John

ras308 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2004, 09:01:56 AM »

I am positive it is tumbling, it cuts perfect keyholes!!! Also, the bullets I reloaded were .224, I even bought some cast bullets at .225, same thing. That is when I took it to the first gunsmith to have the crown re-cut, didn't fix it??? I then took it to a reputable gunsmith with the answer of being shot-out, he was supposed to have air-gauged the barrel. I told him about not being shot much at all, he said that's how it measured out??? Could it have possibly came from the manufacturer with an oversize bore? Any other suggestions.

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2004, 09:11:37 AM »

I think you may have already answered this, but does it do the same with factory ammo?

ras308 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2004, 09:24:47 AM »

Same with everything I've shot in it. It does seem to keyhole less with the cast bullets, this is why I'm thinking it may have an oversize bore??? I know you can get some .229 diameter bullets, but they are kinda heavy. The gunsmith told me he didn't think the bigger bullets would help.

John Traveler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2004, 09:35:49 AM »

Yes, it is remotely possible that a bad barrel got past the Savage QA inspectors. It's even happened to Remington, Ruger, Winchester, whoever more than once.

I once had a customer bring in a like-new Rossi slide-action .22 LR copy of the Winchester M62A. It wouldn't shoot worth a DAMN! Detailed bore inspection showed something unusual: ripples throughout the bore, with segments of rifling completely torn off! It looked like the rifling head ran out of lubricant! Rossi supplied a new barrel no charge, and things were good again.

Your mention of .228" bullets for the .22 Save High Power got me to thinking: Did anyone ever shoot oversized bullets in that bore? If he did, that would explain the bore being oversized. It's RUINED.

John

Chuck White · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2004, 01:02:15 PM »

What are the possibilities that maybe someone had it rebored, and sleeved?

Something like a 222, necked up to a 24 caliber bullet!

Using the same parent case and a different bullet wouldn't be hard to overlook!

ras308 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2004, 03:54:36 AM »

My uncle bought it new probably 25 years ago, the few rounds he shot through it were factory, no chance of it being rechambered while he had it. Is there any way to button rifle it to the next size up???

John Traveler · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2004, 04:08:08 AM »

Ras,

There is NO way to re-button rifle that .222 barrel.

Button rifling is done on a smooth bored and reamed hole. It can not be done on an existing rifled tube.

That Savage combination gun is an interesting piece, but probably prohibitivvely expensive to re-barrel to make it shoot right.

One last suggestion: even though your gunsmith has airgaged the barrel, try slugging it with a soft lead .22 LR bullet. Check to see if there are tight and loose spots in the barrel. If there are, AND the groove diameter measures close to 0.224", you may be able to salvage that barrel by lapping it.

John

ras308 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2004, 04:38:58 AM »

The barrel with a tight patch feels uniform throughout. I did clean it well and then used a little flitz polishing compound. Are you talking about coating the bullets starting with coarse, then medium and finally a fine grit? Thanks.

John Traveler · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2004, 04:47:00 AM »

Yes, I was referring to lapping the bore with lead plug and abrasives.

Sorry, that is about the limit of what can be done with your sour shooting .222 barrel.

If bullets match the groove diameter, and the muzzle crown is good, and the bore seems uniform with no tight or loose spots, and your gunsmith says he airgaged it and found it worn out, then it's the end of the road.

Have you considered sleeving the chamber to shoot .22 WRM or .22 LR? That might be the cheapest way to get a shootable rifle.

HTH
John

ras308 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2004, 05:17:31 AM »

I've considered it, but not sure about how it's accomplished??? Is there anyway to go with the new .204 Ruger or .17 Remington???

gunnut69 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2004, 09:46:21 AM »

I don't believe the rifle could be relined to a 204 or 17 rem. Too much pressure.. The Harnet maybe the 22 wmrf would be a doable thing. Otherwise perhaps use of oversized cast bullets may be an option. this would require loading and NOT sizing the bullets from their as cast diameters...

Rogue Ram · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2004, 06:09:38 PM »

Try checking the twist of the barrel....measure it with your cleaning rod, then check the twist rate against the charts to see what grain bullets it should shoot.

What if the chambering was done improperly......say off center? That might do it.......

gunnut69 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2004, 08:59:35 PM »

Lapping is not going to help if the bore's oversized, it just make it worse.. The simplest fix if the bore is indeed found to be oversized is to use cast bullets. As a turkey taker the cast slugs will work just fine. If the bores sufficiently over it may be possible to use those 228 diameter bullets you were looking at. They are made for the Savage 22 Highpower. They are a bit deavy for caliber as the Highpower was developed and marketed as a medium to light game rifle.. You might also want to check on Remington's PLHP 22 caliber bullet. They have a hollow base which may allow them to bump up a bit to fit a bore that's only a little oversized.. That bore needs to be slugged and the chamber cast to find out whats really going on.

yankee · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2004, 02:50:50 AM »

Bullets key hole because they are not stabalized. They are not stabalized because they.
a. They are to long for the for the twist of the rifle. This barrel should be twisted about a 1 in 14 and won't stabalize anything over a 55 grain. What grain bullets are you shooting?
b. They are not traveling fast enough. What is your load?
c. They are not being engraved by the rifling and not spun. With the action open try dropping a jacketed bullet, not cartridge, down the bore from both ends. It should be stopped by the rifling upon entering. If it falls partway or falls through, your rifle is really shot out or you don't have a .222 cal bore.
Savage was making these rifles a couple years ago and may still be. Give them a call they may be able to fit a new barrel set to your action.

ras308 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2004, 08:53:18 AM »

It won't stabilize even a 40 grn... I was shooting the same load I shoot in a rifle just like this one, it shoots them hole in hole.... Savage will not answer my questions, but my guess is, they don't have a replacement. This rifle is 20+ years old, my uncle gave it to me, said it never shot worth a d...

He only shot a couple of boxes if that many through it, must have slipped past quality control??? Thanks.

Chuck White · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2004, 04:24:56 AM »

There used to be a company that made an insert that could be installed in the chamber and then you could (depending which one you had) fire either 22 S, L, or LR or 22 Mag. in your rifle!

Mikey · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2004, 09:17:04 AM »

to follow up on Chuck White's info about chamber inserts, the firm that made them, and I believe still makes them is called MCA. They used ot be in Kalifornika but I believe are now in Alaska.

I ordered some inserts from them years back and they were good quality. I was shooting the 30 Luger and the 30 Mauser from a 308 - worked fine.

You can probably find the address in the Shotgun News - I've seen his advertisements there recently. HTH. Mikey.

wink_man · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2004, 09:33:17 AM »

The web address for those adapters is as follow:
http://www.mcace.com/

ras308 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2004, 05:22:55 AM »

Thanks for all the advice, have to put it farther back on the back-burner, fix-in to buy another house w/o selling the one I have???