Author Topic: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?  (Read 1439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3589
can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« on: June 23, 2023, 06:23:01 AM »
https://tennesseefirearms.com/2022/12/twra-argues-to-court-of-appeals-that-it-can-search-private-land-at-any-time-without-a-warrant/

A little background on this.  TWRA placed game cams on private property without permission.  A Tennessee judge ruled it unconstitutional and an unreasonable search.  Fast forward......The Tennessee DA has filed an appeal and oral arguements have been heard.  This is going to be an interesting case to watch.

In my personal opinion, far to much power has been granted to agents of the TWRA, more so than any other law enforcement branch.   I hope they are ordered to get a warrant.

Text below:


TWRA argues to Court of Appeals that it can search private land at any time without a warrant
Posted on December 20, 2022 by JohnHarris • 0 Comments

In a case working its way through the Tennessee Court of Appeals, the issue is whether and to what extent the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency can enter a person’s real property at any time without a warrant if it suspects that any hunting activities are taking or have taken place in the past. A state trial court previously ruled that the state statutes that TWRA relies upon for these clandestine invasions and surveillance (including placement of cameras) of private property are unconstitutional. (April 2022 trial court opinion is included below).

On December 14, 2022, TWRA, being defended by the state’s new Attorney General, Jonathan Skrmetti, filed a brief with the Tennessee Court of Appeals seeking to have that court reverse the trial court and restore to the TWRA the ability to enter your private property, to monitor your activities and to install almost any kind of surveillance equipment that it wants – all without demonstrating probable cause to believe a crime is being committed and obtaining a search warrant.

In this litigation, there is no dispute that the individual plaintiffs either owned or leased the properties in question. There is no dispute that these were large tracts involving hundreds of acres. There is no dispute that the properties were gated and included “no trespassing” signs. Nor is there any dispute that TWRA officials had entered the properties to search for possible evidence of hunting activities and to determine if there was evidence of illegal hunting occurring on the privately owned lands.

The trial court had ruled that Tennessee Code Annotated §§ 70-1-305(1) and (7), which are the provisions that TWRA was relying upon, are facially unconstitutional because these provisions “authorize unreasonable warrantless searches in violation of Article I, Section 7 of the Tennessee Constitution.”

In response, TWRA argues to the Court of Appeals that “(1) Sections 70-1-305(1) and (7) are not facially unconstitutional; (2) the properties at issue are not constitutionally protected; and (3) any “search” by the TWRA officers was not unreasonable and therefore did not violate Tenn. Const. art. I, § 7.” On the first issue, TWRA lays out an argument that the statutes are not facially unconstitutional because there may be circumstances under which the statutes could apply that would not be a constitutional violation.

On the 2nd issue, the argument that owners/lessors of the private properties have no constitutional protections, TWRA argues that “the entries on Plaintiffs’ properties were not “searches” at all, because the properties on which the officers entered are not constitutionally protected.” TWRA, while admitting that the lands were used for farming, recreational activities, camping and hunting, argues that the lands are however unprotected constitutionally because the lands are “unoccupied, unenclosed, and not used in the daily operation of the premises.” It also asserts that the lands are unprotected from warrantless searches because the “property consists of a mix of fields, woods, and waters that Mr. Hollingsworth uses for recreational activities such as hunting, fishing, camping, and farming” and that “no one resides on the property, and although there was a gate with a single “No Trespassing” sign, there is no evidence that the property was fenced in any manner or that Mr. Hollingsworth had made any other efforts to occupy the property.”

TWRA also argues that even if the property owners/lessors might be entitled to some constitutional protections, the TWRA searches were not “unreasonable.” TWRA circulate argument here is that since the individuals were required to have a state license to hunt on the properties that they had consented, by law, to any search at any time that was undertaken for the purposes of enforcing the hunting laws or regulations. TWRA asserts “any “search” of Plaintiffs’ properties by a TWRA officer was reasonable; [because] Plaintiffs had a statutory duty to submit to inspection when participating in hunting and fishing activities in the State.” TWRA claims that “the properties in question are the properties of individuals who have voluntarily subjected themselves to regulation and inspection by the TWRA. And TWRA officers enter private property under their statutory authority to do so only when and if they believe hunting activities are currently taking place or have taken place on the property in the past.”

The property owners are expected to file their appellate briefs in January 2023. Certainly, the Court of Appeals could agree with the trial court and hold that the TWRA’s actions and these statutes are unconstitutional. And, if it does, one or both parties could appeal to the Tennessee Supreme Court. But, it raises the question – is the duty of the state attorney general to defend the rights, particularly the constitutional rights of Tennesseans or does that duty yield to the conflicting interests of state officials to violate property rights of private citizens? Which duty of the attorney general takes priority?

Or, more to the point, does the attorney general have any duty to the people of Tennessee vis-a-vis the protection of the constitutional protected rights? Here the issue is property rights. But, what if the issue becomes those rights covered by the 2nd Amendment? Will the attorney general zealously protect the rights recognized by the 2nd Amendment or will the priority be to protect the efforts by state and local officials to infringe those rights too?

Obviously, the Tennessee Legislature could step in and address the issue by requiring TWRA to show to a judicial officer sufficient probable cause to believe that a crime is being or has recently been committed such that a search warrant can be issued. But, even then are those judicial officers going to defend and safeguard the rights of citizens or will they merely “rubber stamp” what the state wants to do and issue the warrant as nothing more than a “free pass to violate the rights of the citizens”.

The Legislature can and should act to zealously defend private property interests and the right to be free from unreasonable (that is, lacking probable cause) searches. It should put a stop to TWRA’s mindset that it can go anywhere at any time to investigate past, present or even potential future hunting violations – all without a search warrant. But, in the same light, the Legislature also can and should repeal the laws that have existed for more than 2 centuries in Tennessee which impair and infringe the rights protected by the 2nd Amendment – but it has not done that either.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3589
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2023, 06:40:38 AM »
Heres a link to a three part series detailing some of the events that occurred.   After finding the camera, the land owner took them down and put them in his gun safe.  A few weeks later, TWRA raided his home and took possession of the cameras along with charging him with stealing government property among other things.

They sued the state and won. 

https://www.wkrn.com/news/tennessee-politics/camden-tn-mans-legal-battle-after-finding-twra-hidden-camera-on-his-property/?ipid=inline-link
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32328
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2023, 07:46:30 AM »
  I don't now how it works in Tennessee, but I taught hunter safety courses here in NY for years.  Part of those lessons also taught that our game
  wardens are first off, state troopers..but state troopers plus.
 
   As a state trooper, I doubt he can go through a home without a permit..however, when he puts his game warden hat on, he can trespass on private
  property, such a woods, marshes etc.

   Then he can turn around, and even if he is wearing his game warden uniform, can ticket you for speeding, inspection lapse or light not working
    ....even though they seldom do.

  ..But as I said, I can't speak for Tennessee...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Bob Riebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7875
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2023, 08:05:38 AM »
Depends on which State; in Minn. they can and have the most authority of any LEO.

Offline mcbammer

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2249
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2023, 08:14:46 AM »
     
Depends on which State; in Minn. they can and have the most authority of any LEO.
I was told the same for Alabama , they have the power to arrest the Governor if need be .

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2023, 08:45:13 AM »
in michigan they can come on your property and in your home without a search warrant if they have probable cause. i know one and he said they are told that they had better have some rock solid probable cause. but that still is a judgement call and i doubt a single one of them has been called on the carpet for doing it. the michigan dnr is run by a bunch of liberal tree huggers. by the way they do have the same powers as the state police and can even write speeding tickets.
blue lives matter

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24321
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2023, 09:45:13 AM »
Search and seizure laws ARE FEDERAL NOT STATE . Nowhere in the Divided States of America can ANY law enforcement officer enter a private residence and search without a warrant UNLESS he CHASES a fleeing suspect into the residence. NO EXCEPTIONS, and that includes squirrel sheriffs.

I personally dealt with BSer game wardens trying to bs their way into peoples houses without a warrant, off and on for 21 years. I've even had to explain it to home owners in front of upset game wardens.

Like I said: SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS ARE FEDERAL, AND STATES CAN'T SUPERCEDE FEDERAL RIGHTS LAWS. And probable cause is what law enforcement is required to have to obtain a search warrant.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.


Offline GTS225

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 480
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2023, 01:58:10 AM »
Search and seizure laws ARE FEDERAL NOT STATE . Nowhere in the Divided States of America can ANY law enforcement officer enter a private residence and search without a warrant UNLESS he CHASES a fleeing suspect into the residence. NO EXCEPTIONS, and that includes squirrel sheriffs.

I personally dealt with BSer game wardens trying to bs their way into peoples houses without a warrant, off and on for 21 years. I've even had to explain it to home owners in front of upset game wardens.

Like I said: SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS ARE FEDERAL, AND STATES CAN'T SUPERCEDE FEDERAL RIGHTS LAWS. And probable cause is what law enforcement is required to have to obtain a search warrant.

I'm gonna open up a real can-o-worms here, and it probably warrants it's own thread, but........
If the above is so true, (and I do agree with it), then how is it that states can have thier own gun laws, regardless of federal laws?  For example, California......federally, AR platforms are quite legal, but in Kali, they are all but outlawed.  Isn't that a conflict of law?  How about those states that have told thier state police and coounty sheriffs to NOT assist BATFE agents with "searches" and raids, along with calling thier states exempt from federal gun control laws?

Just askin'.....Roger

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32328
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2023, 02:24:50 AM »
Search and seizure laws ARE FEDERAL NOT STATE . Nowhere in the Divided States of America can ANY law enforcement officer enter a private residence and search without a warrant UNLESS he CHASES a fleeing suspect into the residence. NO EXCEPTIONS, and that includes squirrel sheriffs.

I personally dealt with BSer game wardens trying to bs their way into peoples houses without a warrant, off and on for 21 years. I've even had to explain it to home owners in front of upset game wardens.

Like I said: SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS ARE FEDERAL, AND STATES CAN'T SUPERCEDE FEDERAL RIGHTS LAWS. And probable cause is what law enforcement is required to have to obtain a search warrant.

I'm gonna open up a real can-o-worms here, and it probably warrants it's own thread, but........
If the above is so true, (and I do agree with it), then how is it that states can have thier own gun laws, regardless of federal laws?  For example, California......federally, AR platforms are quite legal, but in Kali, they are all but outlawed.  Isn't that a conflict of law?  How about those states that have told thier state police and coounty sheriffs to NOT assist BATFE agents with "searches" and raids, along with calling thier states exempt from federal gun control laws?

Just askin'.....Roger

  Perhaps because nobody or no group has taken them to court to fight it ?  Keep in mind, legal costs are very high, and if a citizen or group takes a
  state or federal government to court, they are facing the financial resources of a state.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mcbammer

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2249
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2023, 03:06:42 AM »
Search and seizure laws ARE FEDERAL NOT STATE . Nowhere in the Divided States of America can ANY law enforcement officer enter a private residence and search without a warrant UNLESS he CHASES a fleeing suspect into the residence. NO EXCEPTIONS, and that includes squirrel sheriffs.

I personally dealt with BSer game wardens trying to bs their way into peoples houses without a warrant, off and on for 21 years. I've even had to explain it to home owners in front of upset game wardens.

Like I said: SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS ARE FEDERAL, AND STATES CAN'T SUPERCEDE FEDERAL RIGHTS LAWS. And probable cause is what law enforcement is required to have to obtain a search warrant.

I'm gonna open up a real can-o-worms here, and it probably warrants it's own thread, but........
If the above is so true, (and I do agree with it), then how is it that states can have thier own gun laws, regardless of federal laws?  For example, California......federally, AR platforms are quite legal, but in Kali, they are all but outlawed.  Isn't that a conflict of law?  How about those states that have told thier state police and coounty sheriffs to NOT assist BATFE agents with "searches" and raids, along with calling thier states exempt from federal gun control laws?

Just askin'.....Roger

  Perhaps because nobody or no group has taken them to court to fight it ?  Keep in mind, legal costs are very high, and if a citizen or group takes a
  state or federal government to court, they are facing the financial resources of a state.
Thats why people join the NRA  they have the resources, but their leadership is to busy with self enrichment .
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24321
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2023, 03:22:41 AM »
Along with game wardens from other states, Texas game wardens have pushed the limits of theirs actual authority for years. When federal laws say that you cannot enter someone's home without their permission, or a search warrant that is what it means.
It doesn't matter what kinda badge they carry, or what their title is, the search and seizure laws are federal. They are there to protect your personal rights regardless of where you live in the Divided States of America. If you believe differently because of what you heard, or think, or were told, you're giving up a right provided by the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fourth_amendment
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2023, 04:49:49 AM »
federal law says pot is a class one drug but in many states you can buy it in a store.
blue lives matter

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2023, 04:51:54 AM »
i know its benn challenged here and there still doing it.
Search and seizure laws ARE FEDERAL NOT STATE . Nowhere in the Divided States of America can ANY law enforcement officer enter a private residence and search without a warrant UNLESS he CHASES a fleeing suspect into the residence. NO EXCEPTIONS, and that includes squirrel sheriffs.

I personally dealt with BSer game wardens trying to bs their way into peoples houses without a warrant, off and on for 21 years. I've even had to explain it to home owners in front of upset game wardens.

Like I said: SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAWS ARE FEDERAL, AND STATES CAN'T SUPERCEDE FEDERAL RIGHTS LAWS. And probable cause is what law enforcement is required to have to obtain a search warrant.

I'm gonna open up a real can-o-worms here, and it probably warrants it's own thread, but........
If the above is so true, (and I do agree with it), then how is it that states can have thier own gun laws, regardless of federal laws?  For example, California......federally, AR platforms are quite legal, but in Kali, they are all but outlawed.  Isn't that a conflict of law?  How about those states that have told thier state police and coounty sheriffs to NOT assist BATFE agents with "searches" and raids, along with calling thier states exempt from federal gun control laws?

Just askin'.....Roger

  Perhaps because nobody or no group has taken them to court to fight it ?  Keep in mind, legal costs are very high, and if a citizen or group takes a
  state or federal government to court, they are facing the financial resources of a state.
blue lives matter

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2023, 04:55:16 AM »
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/know-your-rights-can-you-be-searched-without-a-warrant.
all the police need is probable cause and whats to keep them from making it up. seems the constitution gives them that power. but like i said earlier they had better have a believable lie. at least in some states. i sure wouldnt think you get far fighting it here
blue lives matter

Offline neckisred

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2023, 09:45:51 AM »
Right or wrong, you still have to have the money to fight it unless you get help from one of those free justice agencies like the guy in the article did. I don't think any law enforcement agency is going to hesitate to violate the rights of any WHITE average Joe...............
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2023, 10:20:25 PM »
had a buddy get pinched by the dnr a couple years ago. dnr got a bogus tip he was violating at his camp. so 6 dnr officers came one night to try to catch him. they set up in the woods right by his camp. he heard some noises and grabbed his 357 lever gun and went outside with a flashlight. he shined it around and found them. they came charging out and arrested him for pouching with a light. he told them "im standing hear with an open sighted lever gun and i have two scope bolt guns inside. dont you think if i was pouching id have taken one of them" they didnt care they handcuffed him and took him to jail. he contacted a lawyer and the lawyer told him you can plead guilty and pay a thousand dollar fine or hire me for 5 thousand and probably beat it. he had 4 kids and had to go with the cheaper route. he pled guilty. paid the thousand dollar fine, lost his gun and lost hunting privileges for 3 years. by the way the dnr WAS on his land without a warrant. ive heard a few similar stories over the years involving the michigan dnr
blue lives matter

Offline GTS225

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 480
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2023, 02:16:59 AM »
had a buddy get pinched by the dnr a couple years ago. dnr got a bogus tip he was violating at his camp. so 6 dnr officers came one night to try to catch him. they set up in the woods right by his camp. he heard some noises and grabbed his 357 lever gun and went outside with a flashlight. he shined it around and found them. they came charging out and arrested him for pouching with a light. he told them "im standing hear with an open sighted lever gun and i have two scope bolt guns inside. dont you think if i was pouching id have taken one of them" they didnt care they handcuffed him and took him to jail. he contacted a lawyer and the lawyer told him you can plead guilty and pay a thousand dollar fine or hire me for 5 thousand and probably beat it. he had 4 kids and had to go with the cheaper route. he pled guilty. paid the thousand dollar fine, lost his gun and lost hunting privileges for 3 years. by the way the dnr WAS on his land without a warrant. ive heard a few similar stories over the years involving the michigan dnr

Sounds like it was a perfect opportunity for the DNR agents to become "missing persons".

Just sayin'.....Roger

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32328
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2023, 02:58:51 AM »
  Increasingly more gubmint agents trying to mind private citizens business for them !  ..Gotta start raising more hogs...  ;)  :D  ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18750
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2023, 04:46:40 AM »
there leadership knew exactly where they were and sent them there. make even one disappear and you wont see a city street for decades. guess that isnt worth a grand to me. especially since 95 percent of what they do i support. I have no use for pochers. Its the same with police. some abuse there power but i still suport them because they do things most dont have the balls to do
had a buddy get pinched by the dnr a couple years ago. dnr got a bogus tip he was violating at his camp. so 6 dnr officers came one night to try to catch him. they set up in the woods right by his camp. he heard some noises and grabbed his 357 lever gun and went outside with a flashlight. he shined it around and found them. they came charging out and arrested him for pouching with a light. he told them "im standing hear with an open sighted lever gun and i have two scope bolt guns inside. dont you think if i was pouching id have taken one of them" they didnt care they handcuffed him and took him to jail. he contacted a lawyer and the lawyer told him you can plead guilty and pay a thousand dollar fine or hire me for 5 thousand and probably beat it. he had 4 kids and had to go with the cheaper route. he pled guilty. paid the thousand dollar fine, lost his gun and lost hunting privileges for 3 years. by the way the dnr WAS on his land without a warrant. ive heard a few similar stories over the years involving the michigan dnr

Sounds like it was a perfect opportunity for the DNR agents to become "missing persons".

Just sayin'.....Roger
blue lives matter

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32328
  • Gender: Male
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline neckisred

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2023, 01:09:20 AM »
I saw a state trooper write 2 wardens trespassing tickets on my road one day (private road that's posted). No one on my road would admit to calling the trooper. I often wondered what became of that. I haven't seen a warden on my road since, and that was over 30 years ago.

Offline Fixit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2023, 02:07:06 PM »
In most states and municipalities it is within the letter of the law for officers to lie, and in fact many are strongly encouraged to do so by higher ups!  As much as I support the blue, there are issues that exist.
chicken little has finally found an audience

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32328
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2023, 05:33:11 AM »
In most states and municipalities it is within the letter of the law for officers to lie, and in fact many are strongly encouraged to do so by higher ups!  As much as I support the blue, there are issues that exist.

   I don'tknow how far the "right to lie" goes with LEOs, but that loophole has solved many crimes also.  Sometimes a LEO will tell a suspect that they already possess proof of certain things, which they do not have...but it brings the law breaker to confession.

  For instance, interrogater claims, "we have a video that shows youi sticking a gun into the clerk's ribs"..when the law has no such video.

  However it make the perp cough up the truth...and works well for the public.  For myself however, as a Christian, taking liberties with the truth,
     would be very difficult.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline GTS225

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 480
  • Gender: Male
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2023, 10:38:10 AM »
In most states and municipalities it is within the letter of the law for officers to lie, and in fact many are strongly encouraged to do so by higher ups!  As much as I support the blue, there are issues that exist.

It's a very short step from lying to the very people that pay your salary, to lying in a court of law.  There's been more than a few LEO's that have been taken down for lying to a judge, prosecutor, and defense attorney, let alone a jury.

This "right to lie" horseshit has the stink of a police state.

Roger
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline gypsyman

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5048
Re: can a gamewarden search without a warrant?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2023, 12:42:45 PM »
2 game wardens in Idaho pushed their luck with Claude Dallas back in the 80's in Idaho. He's free and living back off the grid, and their not!
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman