Author Topic: New Gun Purchase, New Comparison.  (Read 1083 times)

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Offline Zachary

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New Gun Purchase, New Comparison.
« on: March 03, 2004, 05:43:00 AM »
Dear fellow members and guests,

Although there are really no special requirements to being a moderator here at GBO, I really try to do my best by not only reviewing all of your posts but, just as importantly, actually going out and testing as many rifles as possible so that I can (hopefully) give you good, unbiased comments based on true hands-on experience.  Obviously this doesn't mean that I am compelled to go out and buy every bolt-action rifle out there (nor does any manufacturer give me any guns to test - although I certainly wish they did :) ), but seeing that I do enjoy the topic of bolt action rifles, I try to get different makes and models, especially those that are really hot at the time.  I say this in part because many of you have posts on Tikkas, especially the new T3s, and also Kimbers.

To this extent, I have the following makes of bolt action rifles: Browning, Remington, Winchester, Tikka, Sako, and Kimber (and maybe another make that I probably can't think of right now.)

As for Kimber, I have an 8400 Montana (stainless synthetic) in .300WSM on order.  It has been on order for almost a year, and I am still waiting.  Hopefully it will be here soon.   As for the .300WSM cartridge, yea, it's a hot one, so since most of our guests were talking about it, and since I too had an interest in it, I decided to buy one.  This way, I would kill two birds with one stone.

Another hot topic of discussion lately has been the Tikka T3.  Now, as many of you know, I am a true Tikka fan, at least a Tikka Whitetail Hunter fan.  While I have held a T3 in my hands, I haven't shot one yet, at least not that I remember right now.  (Several people at the local gun range let me shoot their guns and test their scopes, so right now I really can't remember if I shot a T3 - plus I have a really bad headache right now too which also interfers with my memory a bit. :) )

In any event, I wanted you guys to know that I just ordered a Tikka T3 Stainless in .300WSM.  The reason I did this is as follows:  

First, I really want to be able to give everyone a first hand report on the differences between the T3 and the Kimber 8400.  Both are lightweight rifles, and both are chambered in the .300WSM.  The difference in price, however, is double - the Kimber 8400 Montana costs about $1,000, while the Tikka T3 is about $535.  (In fact, I bought the stainless T3 for $535.00 from Ozarkguns. - which leads me to the second reason.)  

Second, many people have asked me about doing business with Ozark guns.  I have never done business with them before, and this is my first time - so then I can give a first hand report on this as well.  

Third, it is very difficult (or at least it appears to be very difficult) to get a T3 Stainless in .300WSM.  Why?  Well, I'm not quite sure, but there are very few quantities available.  In fact, I understand that several dealers are putting customers on waiting lists, which, in turn, leads me to the fourth reason -

Fourth, I found ONE that was available, so I decided to get it now or else wait for God knows how long.

So, the Tikka should be here within a few weeks at the latest.  I'm VERY busy with work right now, especially given that I have been, and will continue to, travel all over the place, especially Brazil, so it may take me longer to actually shoot the T3.  Again, I have held this gun in my hands, but actually buying one will allow me more time to inspect it and thus give a better report.  

Of course I also need to get scopes and scope mounts for these rifles.  I recently bought an Elite 4200 2.5x-10x-40mm from Jon at the opticzone (one of our sponsors), with thoughts of mounting it to my Kimber when it came in.  However, if the Tikka T3 comes in first, and it looks like it will, then I'll mount it to the T3 so that I can give you guys a report on it sooner rather than later.

So, what do you guys think about a comparision between the Kimber 8400 and the Tikka T3?  Would you guys be interested in comparing the two?

Zachary

Offline Back40

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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2004, 07:09:49 AM »
Heck yea! Even if neither make a left hand model. Kimber have a left hand wood/blue listed on their website but when I inquired via email they stated the decision was made to forego the lefty.  :(  So I settled for an HS Precision :grin: Should be in my hands by the end of the month!

Offline longwinters

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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2004, 05:40:14 PM »
Sounds like fun to me!!  I am glad someone has the common sense to get these rifles so the rest of us can have something enjoyable to read about. :lol:

long
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Offline Zachary

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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2004, 03:01:51 AM »
Yea, I'm kinda surprised that no one has made the connection between comparing these two together.  Alot of people have been talking about the T3s, and others about the Kimbers, but not both together.  Usually I hear comparisons about the Kimbers with the Brownings, but the Brownings are not in the same class as the Kimbers (by class I mean the lightweight).  

The only other gun that I think fits in this lightweight class (factory production) is the Remington Mountain Rifle.  Granted, I think it's a little bit heavier than the T3, and I don't think that it comes in Stainless Synthetic (I think it only comes in either blue/wood and stainless laminated), but it might be worth a look as to a possible next purchase. :)

Zachary

Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2004, 04:31:03 AM »
You might find the factory Tikka rings lacking with a magnum cartridge----I'm thinking .270 and smaller for the factory rings.

Talley makes lightweight aluminium rings for the Tikka for like $35 or so----available from Midway or directly from Talley.

Offline bigjeepman

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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2004, 05:48:34 AM »
What a great idea Zachary. I love the .300wsm and mine is a Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow weighing about 6.75 lbs. I put a muzzlebreak on mine which helped the recoil become very manageable.

I have a Sightron scope on mine and am very interested in how that Elite 4200 works for you as I am considering that model for my next scope.

Can't wait for reports from you on this project ....
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Offline Zachary

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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2004, 05:56:45 AM »
My only possible concern on the Elite 4200 2.5x-10x-40mm scope is that it has 3.3" of eye relief.  I'm the kinda guy that used to think, and still kinda do, that I need at least 10 feet of eye relief. :)

Well, I have an Elite 4200 4x-16x-50mm on my 7mm Ultra Mag (not short mag, but the big mama).  This scope has 3.5" or 3.6" of eye relief.  I was very worried that it would hit me, but guess what?  Even after all that super sharp recoil, the scope never touched me.

Wanna know another experience I have with an Elite?  I also have an Elite 3200 1.5x-4.5x-32mm on my .375H&H Mag.  Talk about a boomer. :eek:   Anyhow, this scope has about 3.6" of eye relief, and still, the scope never touched me.

Based on the foregoing, my thoughts have changed a bit regarding eye relief on hard(er) kicking rifles.  Granted, a .300WSM will kick about the same as a .300 Win. Mag. - or actually a tad bit more.  However, the T3 is a light rifle, so I'm wondering if 3.3" of eye relief is going to be enough.

Yup, I think that this is going to be an interesting test. :grin:

Zachary

Offline Coyote Hunter

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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2004, 07:44:48 AM »
Zachary -

I'm with you in thinking I need "10 feet" of eye relief.  Scopes with the standard 3" eye relief have come back and bumped me several times, although never hard enough to cut me - yet.

That's why, when I rescoped my 7mm Mag I went with a 4" eye relief (Simmons Aetec) and when I scoped my Marlin 1895 .45-70 I went with 4.9" eye relief (Leupold VXII 2-7x33).  My Marlin 375 and Ruger .257 Roberts both wear 4" scopes (used but good condition Leupold M8-4x in both cases).  So far none of these scopes has touched me, which suits me just fine.  For quite a while I was removing the scope on the .45-70 when shooting my "Rhino Blaster" loads (460g hardcast @ 1812fps), but at 44 foot-pounds recoil with the scope mounted, even these don't generate enough recoil to ding me with the scope.
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Offline stork

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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2004, 10:31:15 AM »
I also like the ''10 feet'' of eye relief.  my 06's stock doesn't fit me qiute right and I have a really cheap scope on it, so shooting can be very interesting.  I also wear glassses and i weigh 115 pounds and am 5' 10'' so it moves me around quite a bit depending on my shooting position.

Offline Zachary

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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2004, 03:35:32 PM »
I was reading my February issue of Shooting Times.  On pg. 29, there is an article on handloading for the .270WSM.  Granted, the T3 that I just bought is in .300WSM, but the article was interesting because it was comparing identical loads (both factory and handloads) in two different guns - a Savage, and a Tikka T3.

The interesting thing is that, on pg. 32, it stated that the velocities of the T3 were as much as 200 fps SLOWER than the Savage.  :eek:   That seems almost unbelievable.  Apparently, the author attributed this to the Tikka having a barrel thorat of at least 1/8 inch longer than the Savage.

Question - does that make such a big difference? :?   I have heard of some barrels being "faster" than other barrels - is this what they mean?  I also thought that the amount of groves in a barrel also has something to do with the "speed" of a barrel?  Any comments?

I wish that I had a crony to do my test when my guns come in.  Actually, come to think of it.  I think that I just may invest some money and get one.  Does anyone have any recommendations?

Zachary  

Offline Fla Brian

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2004, 07:28:47 AM »
I've never gotten the Order of the Red Crescent from any rifle/scope combination, but I was beat up in a different way because of a scope.

I mounted a B&L Scopechief 1.5-4.5X20 on my first centerfire rifle, a Remington 700 BDL in .30-06. I had had the rifle for years but had never scoped it - in fact, I had never even shot it. When I went to the bench to sight it in, I discovered something interesting. The scope was too short to mount far enough back, and I had to scrunch way up on it to shoot. On the first shot, and every shot thereafter, the hard plastic buttplate slipped off my shoulder and rammed me in the soft tissue of my upper arm (and I was wearing a tee shirt).

After going through about two boxes of cartridges I developed one world class bruise.

I learned something else that day. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive - I didn't flinch once that whole time as evidenced by the good groups I got.

I did, however, change to a longer scope. :)  :)  :)

Some time later, another rifle I acquired, a .45-70 Siamese Mauser with stout handloads, initiated another fella into the Red Crescent group. But, that's another story.
Brian
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Nil sine magno labore.

Offline Fla Brian

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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2004, 07:39:52 AM »
By the way, Zachary, I'd love to hear your evaluation of those two rifles. I've never owned either a Tikka or a centerfire Kimber, and I'd like to hear from someone other than a gun mag writer about them. I always take the tests in gun mags with a grain of salt.
Brian
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Nil sine magno labore.