Exxon oil spill cleanup ongoing in Arkansas, pipeline shut

[scootrd]

The spill in this small commuter town has stoked a discussion about the environmental dangers of using aging pipelines to transport heavy crude from Canada, including tar sands, as a boom in oil and gas production in North America increases volumes moving across the continent.

The Pegasus line, which can transport more than 90,000 barrels per day of crude from Patoka, Illinois to Nederland, Texas, was carrying Canadian Wabasca Heavy crude at the time of the leak, a bitumen oil from the massive Pelican Lake field in northern Alberta.

Exxon Mobil's Pegasus pipeline crosses 13 miles of the Lake Maumelle watershed.

12,000 barrels of oil and water had been recovered so Far.

[ChungDoQuan]

On the ten mile long stretch of test pipeline for the Canadian shale oil:

[Hairy Chest]

Arkansas residents need to be aware of spraying dangerous chemicals to make oil disappear.  It has been reported that Gulf residents are still being sprayed with banned dispersant, core exit.  The chem spraying happens at night. In the meantime, clean-up workers from Gulf are dropping like flies from the dangerous chemical and many residents are sick.   

[scootrd]

No Matter. BP still got their taxpayer subsidies.

[vabeachman]

That stuff is really hard to clean up.  Will probably have to remove the dirt.  The worst part of this TransCanada pipeline is the eminent domain power we have given them.  TransCanada doesn't even pay the going rates of other pipeline companies and doesn't have the same pollution controls in their contract.  One guy in Texas already has 3 pipelines on his property, when he tried to negotiate with TransCanada, they condemned his property and put their pipeline in anyway.  He is in court now.  He states the other pipelines companies paid more and had better environmental protection.  Hopefully he will win. 

[Dixie Dude]

That is why we need new pipelines, as older ones can have problems.  Also, I live down south and haven't heard about anyone dropping like files in the gulf.  My son just spent spring break down at Orange Beach and Dolphin Island in Alabama and beaches are white as snow.  No sign of oil or oil spill.  If you haven't got a news source, can't just spout rumers.  I work in the pipeline industry, and new pipelines would make far more sense.  Larger diameter new pipe with proper coating can operate at less pressure for the same volume.  These older pipelines were probably built during WWII when there were no pipe standards for type and quality of pipe.  Some older steel lines have a lot of carbon in them and it tends to seperate from the iron and flake off.  Steel pipe is now rated for pressure and has a "specified minimum yeild strength" SMYS.  Some is 25,000 psi, some 35,000 psi, some 42,000, some 52,000 and some 70,000, and some even greater.  My company has standardized on 52,000.  Then the wall thickness also has a pressure limiting factor.  We use formulas to calculate the maximum, called "hoop stress".  Back in the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's they began with no standards and then started during the 40's to come up with them.  Most were finalised during the 1960's and applied on the Alaska Pipeline.  Now all new pipeline construction nationwide are using strict standards.  However, offshore has outside the legal limit of the US there are no real standards.  So the new Keystone pipeline will be larger diameter, lower pressure, and new pipe, thus a 50-100 year life without problems.  I have a pipeline that used the best standards available in 1955 and it has never had a leak carrying 125 psi of natural gas.  It has 1/2" of coating protection on it.  It is checked for leaks once a year as per DOT, Office of Pipeline Safety, Part 192 of the codes if you want  to look it up.  Pipelines aren't bad.  We have enough pipelines in the US to reach the moon and back about 4 times.  They are everywhere.  It is just some are overstressed and need replacement.  New pipelines are generally overbuilt to handle any future increases in pressure or capacity.  We have miles of pipelines recently installed that were tested for 720 psi, but only operate at 175 psig or 425 psi, and in my opinion the 425 is overkill and could be lowered. 

[vabeachman]

I strongly believe in personal property rights.  I don't believe in eminent domain.  We are rapidly moving to a state where there are no true enforceable personal property rights.   Seizing people lands, condemning them, restricting use of their own land is something the government should be no part of.  True and free capitalism should be used to build pipelines.  When the government allows it, they are just subsidizing it.  If someone wants to allow a pipeline through their property, that is their business and if another person doesn't, that is their business.  Government needs to stay out of it.

[vabeachman]

According to the Texas Property Owners Bill of Rights:  Private property may only be taken by a governmental entity or private entity that is authorized by law to do so.  Your property may be taken only for a public purpose.  That means it can only be taken for a purpose or use that serves the general public.  Texas law prohibits condemnation authorities from taking your property to enhance tax revenues or foster economic development.

[Dixie Dude]

A lot of people will allow a natural gas pipeline to cross their property if they get free gas, or get an annual check for the easement or ROW.  Oil is a different story.  Private companies have to go to every property owner and either give them free gas, or a certain amount of money to cross it, or outright buy the property.  There is usually no problem with private companies.  Actually most follow along road and highway ROW's.   Governments can go through condemnation procedures and claim emminant domain and take it.  Not right for the government to get by that way.  They can call your property a wetland, and you can't build on it, or some threatened species of something lives there and you can't do anything with it. 

[vabeachman]

I allowed a natural gas pipeline on my property.  At first the landman threaten me with eminent domain claiming they were going to qualify as a common carrier in  P.A., going rate at that time was $2/rod. They also told me if I did not sign the land leases they would just slant drill under my property and would not have to pay me anything.  P.A. refused to give them common carrier status, I worked out a decent deal for the pipeline.  I also have multiple wells, that I was able to get a decent deal on.  But TransCanada does not want to give a decent deal and is using eminent domain to put in the pipeline. 

[scootrd]

Not a valid youtube URL

[vabeachman]

got me laughing.