Tenth Anniversary of Pretending There Was Reason to Invade Iraq

[nw_hunter]

Several of you continue to try and turn this thread into a personal flame war.............Not about the topic, but name calling each other because your view of politics differ...................ENOUGH!

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Ok fine, understood.....but it just isn't right to remove somebody's post just because it irritated a member of echo chamber enough to issue a personal attack on a poster or post he doesn't like....they count on that to get the 'record' changed/abridged and get away with that.  Leave the original post alone,,,and deal with the personal attacker...That's only right and fair!!
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..TM7

If you want to chastise me or another Mod for the way we are doing our job, do so in a PM.

[mcwoodduck]

Chung says:
" Capitalism and its subsequent income inequality are the root causes of social problems. The capitalists ARE the government. The taxes the colonies were protesting were not being paid by destitute newly freed indentured servants, and they were certainly not being paid by the slaves--- they were being paid by the "founding fathers" who were also the richest men on the continent. Their real genius was in convincing the poor white colonists to go to war for them and in setting up a government of themselves, so that they actually paid taxes to themselves after the revolution. Do you realize that the Emancipation Proclamation didn't just affect the slaves? Unless you owned 170 acres, you (as a white man) could not vote either, until after the Civil War. Most of the colonists probably could not tell the difference between life under the Brits from life under the new state governments"
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  Chung;
        Your statement above speaks very loudly...it is obvious you hate the United States.  You also hate our history, traditions, values and most of our people..
   
       Where are you from; ,,,,,Mars ? 
              ....Or perhaps closer by..like North Korea, Venezuela, Iran, Pakistan or Cuba?

Absolutely not! The United States still has the POTENTIAL to be the best place in history to live--- but, it was set up OF the capitalists, BY the capitalists, and FOR the capitalists. Unless WE THE PEOPLE exercise controls over them, the economy will collapse. It has happened before. Leading up to the Great Depression, the banks were de-regulated, antitrust laws were repealed, and Wall Street became almost purely speculative--- the economy crashed. Sound familiar? FDR initiated programs that stabilized the economy, by INCREASING government spending to create jobs, re-regulating the financial institutions, and breaking up the trusts. The Republicans immediately began to whittle away at those reforms, until we're in the same boat again, and guess what? The same thing happened. Surprise! (Not!)  What?  The capitalists want a booming economy, it promotes more people with money to buy their and new products.  Have you really drunk that much of the commie coolaid that you do not understand that with out disposable income, the capitalists are with out money?  With out money they can not produce their good or service, they can not employ people, they can not pay taxes, they can not buy energy. 
Do you understand that the fall of rome will be the egualivant to the fall of capitalism and the Dark ages will return.   
Do you understand that during the depression the economy grew at 2.5% and under Obama and his anti capitalist, steal the wealth policies we are not growing at that rate?

I live here. THIS is the place I want to make better, not Venezuela, Iran, Pakistan, etc. I do not hate anything, certainly none of the things you mention. I just do not buy the BS. And, far rightys are not MOST of the people, thankfully.

[vabeachman]

What started it all and happening again.  Iraq is again claiming Kuwait is stealing Iraqi oil by slanting drilling across borders.  This is part of the reason Iraq to military action against Kuwait.  Would we allow Mexico or Canada to slant drill into the USA?

[vabeachman]

I wonder whose side we will be on if Iraq again takes action against the Kuwait.

[Oldshooter]

What started it all and happening again.  Iraq is again claiming Kuwait is stealing Iraqi oil by slanting drilling across borders.  This is part of the reason Iraq to military action against Kuwait.  Would we allow Mexico or Canada to slant drill into the USA?

I do not know if there is slant drilling going on or not. Would be easy to determine I am sure, and given the turmoil in Iraq right now, It would be an opportune time for a shady sheik to try to take advantage of that. All that being said, the first invasion was (IMO) a real, (not conspiratorial) oil and land grab. Sadhim was betting no one would call his hand. Before anyone comes back with thats what we were doing invading I raq, let say that if we did it for the oil why didnt we get any? I would believe Bush did it to just get sadhim before I would believe the oil conspiracy.
 
As to who's side "we" would take. WE aint deciding those kinds of things. The Muslim brother hood will prolly make that call. 
 
 

[vabeachman]

The Iraq Kuwait issue has been around for a long time.  Through many different presidencies and ruling political parties from the right and from the left.  In the 1930s Kuwait almost was reunited to Iraq peacefully.

[SHOOTALL]

That pretty well sums it up, yes. I don't think it was a single event, nor even an outright conspiracy. I think it's built into the corporate mind. That's exactly why there need to be restrictions on corporate capitalism. I think individuals should be allowed the freedom to make what they can of their lives, or take the consequences--- but I think the system is set up to make it almost impossible to do that if you start out poor. Corporations did that.

No to many who started poor made it to a comfortable life . Why is it an advantage for corps to stifle peoples income ? It is not people buy products the corp makes . Govt on the other hand can control people who are dependent on them. Banks may be at the heart of the problem really . 

[Oldshooter]

In the 1930s Kuwait almost was reunited to Iraq peacefully.

I cant find verification of that statement. I did find that when Pearls started being manufactured artificially in the 20's Kuwait's economy went south and Iraq and Saudia Arabia tried land grabs but England  imposed the Uqair Protocol of 1922. and staved off the neighbors, Then oil was discovered in the 30's and the rest is history.

[BAGTIC]

There was reason to invade Iraq... in 1990. If we had done it right the first time around there would have been no reason to go back. America maintains its modern war record of half-assed and half finished.
My father always said "If something is worth doing it is worth doing right." Of course his generation won its war.

[gypsyman]

BAGTIC + 1  Reason we won WW11 is we didn't care about ''colaterial damage''. It was understood, that is how we win wars. Bush 1 didn't go far enough, as he was told, it would upset the middle east, and possibly create turmoil. Got it anyway. Always will be with the Muslims stirring the pot all the time. Shoulda dropped a nuke in '91 and got it over with. Gonna happen anyway. gypsyman

[ironglow]

BAGTIC + 1  Reason we won WW11 is we didn't care about ''colaterial damage''. It was understood, that is how we win wars. Bush 1 didn't go far enough, as he was told, it would upset the middle east, and possibly create turmoil. Got it anyway. Always will be with the Muslims stirring the pot all the time. Shoulda dropped a nuke in '91 and got it over with. Gonna happen anyway. gypsyman

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  As I have often said; "political correctness will ruin this nation"..but only if we allow it..
   So far, the Lefties have pushed it...  and the rest have allowed it..

[Casull]

That's what I love about the conspiracy types.  If a conspiracy theory just does not pan out, reverse it 180 degrees and run with it.   

[Oldshooter]

That's what I love about the conspiracy types.  If a conspiracy theory just does not pan out, reverse it 180 degrees and run with it.   

 

[ChungDoQuan]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

[rickt300]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

And leftists stand there with their hands out right? If the capitalists quit on money many others would starve. Do you have a God CDQ? Is it hate?

[SHOOTALL]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

So in your business do you try to lose money or make a profit ? If times are good do you make a certain amount of profit then give the rest away ? If the laws allow you to operate a certain way do you not do so ?

[BAGTIC]

We keep making the same mistake over and over. We also should have dropped the bomb in 1951 (Korea) and we would not have the crap we have put up with since then from the Kims. It might even have prevented VietNam just a few years later. We have lost credibility. We shout "Wolf, wolf, wolf" and our adversaries answer "Here puppy" and we send more young men off to shed their blood and die.

[ChungDoQuan]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

And leftists stand there with their hands out right? If the capitalists quit on money many others would starve. Do you have a God CDQ? Is it hate?

Leftists are the only ones trying to keep Big Money from becoming All Money.

[ChungDoQuan]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

So in your business do you try to lose money or make a profit ? If times are good do you make a certain amount of profit then give the rest away ? If the laws allow you to operate a certain way do you not do so ?

The amount I make in a year is comparable to the amount one ant would eat off your sandwich at a picnic. The big money just wants the whole sandwich.

[Gary G]

Capitalists always do whatever makes them more money. No conspiracy needed. Money is their god.

So in your business do you try to lose money or make a profit ? If times are good do you make a certain amount of profit then give the rest away ? If the laws allow you to operate a certain way do you not do so ?

The amount I make in a year is comparable to the amount one ant would eat off your sandwich at a picnic. The big money just wants the whole sandwich.

Prices are always set on the market according to supply and demand. Sellers always want the highest price that they can get (this is not greed, and if it is, it doesn't matter) and buyers always want the lowest price that they can get something for. The equilibrium price is the price in the middle that they can both agree and will be the selling price. After a price has been established, it usually remains sticky for a time.
If corporations have a high margin of profit, this will quickly draw competition to take advantage, and the margins will drop. Larger corporations have figured out how they can use government to pass laws and make regulations to limit competition by smaller firms. Sometimes they even write the regulations through their lobbiest. The congress and the president should have price tags around their necks. It makes no matter which party it is. One party says they are for the poor and oppressed  the other party is there to protect us from bad men. But they are both there for one thing only, to line their pockets and satisfy their lust for power.

[ChungDoQuan]

Problem is, with so much money (power) controlled (without restriction of a social contract, like, oh, a Constitution) by so few, there is no more free market.

[scootrd]

Some of you can spin it any way you like, but at least that engagement was approved by Congress and that's a heck of a lot more than What has obtained for the idiot in charge right now. 

Not to be argumentative but a few points ...

1.) It was approved by congress , because it was packaged and sold to congress upon fictitious intel. Immediately after 9/11 they went looking for , couldnt find , so they fabricated a connection.

2.) Saddam was a bad guy , but he was OUR bad guy when we needed him to fight Iran.

3.) There were reasons too invade .

A. stimulate our economy, Cheneys buddies at Haliburton thank us.
B. JR. completing papa bears mission. See dad I'm a tough guy also.
C. remap the ME while trying for an oil grab in the process.

Semper Fi

[Casull]

Wow, that second pic looks soooooooooo photoshopped.  But, I'm sure it isn't.   

[Gary G]

Problem is, with so much money (power) controlled (without restriction of a social contract, like, oh, a Constitution) by so few, there is no more free market.

Right you are. Very little anyway.
Mises called it government Interventionism. It is terminal too, just like socialism. America initiated the death process with the New Deal. Central Planning began replacing free markets.

[scootrd]

Wow, that second pic looks soooooooooo photoshopped.  But, I'm sure it isn't.   

Who knows , and quite frankly who cares it stresses the point. We were in bed with this so called bad guy , till it suited us not to be. Such is the world of governments. what is it they say...... politics makes strange .........

US and our allies have been in the business of instituting regime changes (even against previous so called allies) for ages when it suits our needs. Besides we had a lot of new military toys at the time and needed a place to try 'em out. Never say we are willing to squander defense offense $$$$$$ for no reason.

Our foreign policy in the 80's kinda went like this -

Hey Iraq,  here are some weapons.
Hey Iran , Iraq has some new weapons
hey Iraq,  Iran knows about the weapons
Hey Iran , Iraq knows you know about their new weapons...

one big circle jerk

Semper Fi

[Casull]

Who knows , and quite frankly who cares it stresses the point. We were in bed with this so called bad guy , till it suited us not to be. Such is the world of governments. what is it they say...... politics makes strange .........

 
 
 
 
Seriously?  If you don't care whether what you post is true or not, only whether it "stresses the point" then why should anyone pay any attention to your post?  Yeah, we were in bed with him about a quarter century ago and then we took him out.  Things change.

[scootrd]

Who knows , and quite frankly who cares it stresses the point. We were in bed with this so called bad guy , till it suited us not to be. Such is the world of governments. what is it they say...... politics makes strange .........

 
 
 
 
Seriously?  If you don't care whether what you post is true or not, only whether it "stresses the point" then why should anyone pay any attention to your post?  Yeah, we were in bed with him about a quarter century ago and then we took him out.  Things change.

Seriously?, if all you got out of the post is a satirical pic that drives home how screwed up our foreign policy is buddy you surely miss the whole point.

here's another one .

The Saudi's are NOT our friends except of course when we need them.  Oh and FYI Bin Laden was Saudi. In fact The  whole bin Laden family is a wealthy family intimately connected with the innermost circles of the  royal family. You really think he was just a rogue bad seed son that went off the reservation and the family didn't know where he was holed up?  yeah right. I got a bridge to sell ya.

And just one more quick fact .... not a single one of the 9/11 terrorists were Iraqi

Semper Fi

[BAGTIC]

Nations don't have friends. They have interests. Interests change. Not everyone sees the world with the naivete of a third grader. Nations do what they must, when they must to further their interests. We live in the real world not Sunday School class.