Need Barrel Recommendation for 303 Brit. It is next in the queue.

[8uck5nort]

22-250 to 8x57 is currently being machined by Wayne York. I expect to have that project wrapped up later this year. I am squirreling away some nuts already for my next project. What is the easiest exisitng barrel to convert to 303 Brit? I was thinking a sb2 frame in 30-30 and do a rechamber and just use 308 bullets with 308 stem in my dies instead of the 311 stem. The other option I am thinking is 7.62x39 rechamber and rework of the extractor/ejector. Maybe a .223 barrel with a complete rebore and rechamber? Your thoughts please.

[Doc Fillem]

I've also thought about a .303 Brit conversion. To me, the only reason to do it would be to be able to shoot standard .303 Brit ammo so the .308 bore size is out. That only leaves the 7.62x39 barrel as an option, at least to me.

[RPRNY]

The EASIEST way to do it is the rechamber a 30-30 barrel to .303 Brit but use .308 bullets, thus creating the .303 American. You use .303 brass and load data but get the benefit of extremely plentiful .308 bullets. That's the EASIEST way, next is a rechamber of the much more rare 7.62x39 barrel and lastly would be a rechamber and rebore.

[44 Man]

I understand the idea is to have something a little different, but I'd take a 30-30 to 30-40AI.  I think that would be a fun project.  Just my 2cts and only worth that but if I had to spend the amount of a rebore into a Handi, it would spoil the enjoyment for me.  I'd rather spend the money to buy a bolt gun in a different caliber, or an old one in a odd caliber and work with that.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Handi's, but part of my fun is out shooting my buddy's with a gun that cost a third of what their's did.  I would love it if H&R would offer barrel blanks that they would chamber for us on a semi custom basis or just sell me a barrel blank fitted to an action and let me chamber it for what I wanted.  Just my thoughts.  44 Man

[petemi]

Aside from the availability of .308 bullets mentioned above, why not just stub a .303 Brit barrel.  Larry Trotter made my .32-20 Handi that way and it adequately shoots ..310, .311, .312 jacketed and 313 cast.  I've never tried .308s, but imagine they would do poorly.  The 7.62x39 bullets do just fine.  The .303 barrels are available and not overly costly.  I'm surprised we don't see more .303 Handis in Canada where the .303 is a religion.

Pete

[hoytcanon]

...  I'm surprised we don't see more .303 Handis in Canada where the .303 is a religion...
Pete

Pete, I think the .303 is big up here because of the plethora of post war rifles that were available many years ago (and to a much lesser degree today)... Canadian shooters used them because the guns and ammo were common and "cheap." Because cost was the single biggest influencing factor... it is unlikely too many are modifying rifles (@ $$$XXX???) to shoot .303 Brit... many shooters actually look down on the caliber do to the perception that it is for cheap, overused (inaccurate/shot out) rifles... even so, there are some fine rifles done this way (see CGN), but very, very few... the ought six has a religious following here... and is probably the most common big game caliber.

[spruce]

Just curious - what groove diameter are the H&R 7.62x39 barrels?
 
Seems like I've read that some manufacturers (Ruger may be one) use .308 groove diameter barrels on their 7.62x39's.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

wouldn't a properly necked .303Brit should shoot just fine out of a .308 bore?

the pressure would be a bit higher, but a Handi can handle that easily

[gcrank1]

The potential problem I perceive is the chamber reamer for 303 B will leave a wide dia. neck/throat/leade; even if you use the smaller size expander button to up a resized undersize neck (if your dieset will even undersize that far) and can fit .308 bullets the chamber wont be cut for that. The 303 B Martini I had was from way back and the chamber neck was so large that to get lead bullets to shoot I ended up using bullets of .321; it did shoot 7.62 x 39 pulled jacketed bullets with hunting accuracy (they must have been barely hanging onto the rifling).
Solution as I see it is to have a chamber reamer that might more correctly be called a .30/303, and Im sure has already been made by someone as the 303 has been wildcatted into about every available caliber that will fit.

[jeepmann1948]

Why not, other than the sake of being different, consider a 308 Win  on a SB2 frame?Given the huge availability of Ammo, Brass and Bullets and tremendous loads data , it seems to me a more logical choice.
But then again when does logic apply to want?.
George

[petemi]

I suppose I digress.  My dad carried an '06 Springfield in "The Great War to End all Wars".  My Uncle too In WWII in the Pacific, later replaced with the Garand.  He also brought home a 6.5 Jap that I had for a while.  I also had a Carcano for a while.  For some reason I've always had a warm spot in my heart for the Springfield, the .303 Enfield and and the K98.  They eventually became to expensive for me to consider as a souvenir rifle.  I had a Handi '06, but i couldn't warm up to it.  I'm a .308 family man.  A 6.5, .303 or 8mm Handi still has a lot of appeal for me.  Who knows, I may do one yet.

Pete

[gcrank1]

Well, you guys are all as good 'enablers' as me.......all these oddball calibers and conversations, so I dug out the 1918 GEW 98 and the WWII bringback Carcano, both home-sporterized long ago, and decided to play with them. No need to built a Handi in 8 or 6.5mm for me! For way less than the cost of a re-bore and build-up you can still buy real gun made of real wood and steel in non-collectable condition.
FWIW, that little Carcano carbine repeater goes about 6# loaded and c/w sling; try to get that with a Handi., and I dont have to fumble cartridges while out winter hunting.

[hoytcanon]

I suppose I digress.  My dad carried an '06 Springfield in "The Great War to End all Wars".  My Uncle too In WWII in the Pacific, later replaced with the Garand.  He also brought home a 6.5 Jap that I had for a while.  I also had a Carcano for a while.  For some reason I've always had a warm spot in my heart for the Springfield, the .303 Enfield and and the K98.  They eventually became to expensive for me to consider as a souvenir rifle.  I had a Handi '06, but i couldn't warm up to it.  I'm a .308 family man.  A 6.5, .303 or 8mm Handi still has a lot of appeal for me.  Who knows, I may do one yet.
Pete

We see eye2eye on the SA's... I have the 6.5 "in the oven"... but there is an 8X57 on the back burner... the only .30/06 I have owned is getting cut off and stubbed... and I am ok with that... but around here, I won't tell folks about it... it would be viewed as "sacrilege!" 

[8uck5nort]

The potential problem I perceive is the chamber reamer for 303 B will leave a wide dia. neck/throat/leade; even if you use the smaller size expander button to up a resized undersize neck (if your dieset will even undersize that far) and can fit .308 bullets the chamber wont be cut for that. The 303 B Martini I had was from way back and the chamber neck was so large that to get lead bullets to shoot I ended up using bullets of .321; it did shoot 7.62 x 39 pulled jacketed bullets with hunting accuracy (they must have been barely hanging onto the rifling).
Solution as I see it is to have a chamber reamer that might more correctly be called a .30/303, and Im sure has already been made by someone as the 303 has been wildcatted into about every available caliber that will fit.

Just trying to wrap my head around what your saying, but you see the 30/30 to 303 Brit/American to be an issue?  Basically the Brass is still over sized and will not seat a 308 bullet very well and will have too much room in the neck/land area to be an accurate shooter? Let me know if this is what you mean. That would rule that avenue out for me. If I am going to the trouble and expense I want something that will hold its own.

Thanks.

[8uck5nort]

Why not, other than the sake of being different, consider a 308 Win  on a SB2 frame?Given the huge availability of Ammo, Brass and Bullets and tremendous loads data , it seems to me a more logical choice.
But then again when does logic apply to want?.
George

You are right. I considered the 30/40 Krag too, but I got a soft spot for the 303 Brit. Logic has nothing to do with why I want a Handi in 303 Brit other than my own twisted brand of thinking. I have a nice LongBranch sporter in 303 and handload for it. One of the fastest bolt actions ever made and buttery smooth the day it was manufactured. I just wanted a accompanying single shot as a backup rifle in case I get to use it hunting. Just trying to get there the cheapest way possible. Not to mention the fact it is just cool saying, "Hey, I got a Handi in 303 Brit"!  

[8uck5nort]

I suppose I digress.  My dad carried an '06 Springfield in "The Great War to End all Wars".  My Uncle too In WWII in the Pacific, later replaced with the Garand.  He also brought home a 6.5 Jap that I had for a while.  I also had a Carcano for a while.  For some reason I've always had a warm spot in my heart for the Springfield, the .303 Enfield and and the K98.  They eventually became to expensive for me to consider as a souvenir rifle.  I had a Handi '06, but i couldn't warm up to it.  I'm a .308 family man.  A 6.5, .303 or 8mm Handi still has a lot of appeal for me.  Who knows, I may do one yet.

Pete

You do not digress at all. My interest in history is what got me indirectly started in firearms in the first place. My grandfather was in WW2 in the pacific. He was a medic and was in the occupation force that went into Japan after they dropped the bomb and surrendered. My great uncle fought in Europe. My first rifle that I purchased was  K98 mauser that was sported prolly back in the 50's. Great shooting rifle. My nephew used it boar hunting spring 2011 and hammered a 200 pound pig. Droped it in its tracks. The willaims peep sites on it are starting to give me some issues since my eyesight is starting to deteriorate, but in good light I can still use it to good effect at 100 yards. I have had several Carcanos in 6.5 (.268 not .264), and even a 8x56R Austo-Hungarian rifle. Now that would be a thumper in a Handi. I also want the 30-06 in a single shot, and semi-auto. I have 2 bolt guns in that caliber that are excellent shooters. (Both Marlins in the new XL7). I just never got into the .308 family. I would like to have a single shot and bolt gun 6.5 swede and 35 Whelen one day as well, but for now I just have to chip away at my wants. Too many toys and not enough money and time to play with them all.
 

[RPRNY]

On the issue of .303 chamber and .308 barrel bore (ie a 30-30 barrel), I will of course defer to those more experienced than I am (just about everyone on this board), however, when looking at the SAAMI chamber  (minimum) specs, the differences just don't seem that significant when we consider some of the common throating issues with our Handis.

.303 chamber neck:  .3400"     http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/303%20British.pdf   

30-30 chamber neck: .3331"    http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/30-30%20Winchester.pdf

Difference: .0069"

.303 Leade: .3125"

30-30 Leade: .3090"

Difference: .0035"


I do not have a Handi 30-30 (shame  ) but my bet is that the chamber will be a smidgeon (technical industry term) larger than the SAAMI .3331" minimum at the neck and possibly even the littlest bit bigger than .309 in the leade minimum. And yet, the Handi 30-30 is widely viewed as a most excellent shooter.

In the interests of saving some $250 (the least I think a rebore could cost), would a .303 chamber cut tightly to SAAMI minspec (or just that slightest bit tighter if possible, thank you) that left those tolerances, .0035" in the leade, be worth it?  Certainly for me it would. And if I found that jacketed bullets were not as minutely accurate as I desired, would I not be happy to shoot .309/.310 sized lead? I most certainly would.

Just my thoughts on the subject. As an aside, I just bought a 30-40 Krag sporter and it is now my favorite round and rifle by far. I believe that in a Handi, with judicious experimentation, the 30-40 could be loaded up to factory .308 ammo performance and that with Krag  loads it will shoot 220 gr lead with 30-30 comfort. But I suppose the Handi offers the same versatility to the .303 Brit...

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

looking at the chamber specs, I see no reason why the 303B would cause a problem

the chamber entrance is a shallow taper, the leade is a long shallow taper

that would not be an impediment to a .311-.312 bullet.

there are lots of guys shooting 7.62x39 pulled bullets in American 30Cals without a problem.

If I had an extra 30-30, I'd do it if I could find a reamer!

[gcrank1]

It may not be much of an issue with a MIN. spec chamber reamer, and I would want to have the conversation with the reamer provider about these concerns of mine. It is common practice of those building target rifles to use 'tight chambers' for good reason and for lead bullet shooting especially so. A few thou' larger in a spec can make a sloppy loose field chamber when a little more care in picking a reamer and doing the job can result in a tack driver.
Consider this, given a decently made and rifled barrel, regardless of barrel maker, the accuracy potential you achieve will be the result of the chamber job. That said, the most important part of the chamber is the neck/throat/leade you choose. Keep in mind the .303B is not just a British version of an American .30 caliber.

[RPRNY]

There is a compromise, the original .303 American, more properly known as the .303 Savage. True, it's more 30-40 than .303 Brit, but it's a true .308 bullet with the same neck and leade as the 30-30 and would resolve the issues gcrank1 is concerned about.

I still think a tight rechamber to .303  Brit gets you where you want to be but a .303 Savage in this day and age would certainly be unique 





Lyman #45 ^

Roughly speaking 170 gr jacketed over 32.5 grs IMR4895 for 2200 fps. vs (Lyman 49) .303 Brit 174 gr RN over 38.5 grs IMR4895 for same speed.

Interesting if nothing else.

[gcrank1]

A wonderful 'Classic' suggestion! That 'Short Krag' cartridge is a fine efficient package and would be a great cast bullet shooter with that elegant long neck.
Will a 30-30 chamber clean up with that reamer?

[RPRNY]

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/30-30%20Winchester.pdf

It should do. Everything in the Savage 303 chamber is just a bit bigger with the exception  of rim diameter which is .001 smaller at .505 than Spec on the 30-30.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

the only concern I'd have with the 303S is the neck might not clean up if it is sloppy in the rifle already.

it could perhaps leave a step/ring in the neck?

[gcrank1]

That is always iffy, isnt it? You cannot be sure how generous your 'field chamber' is on sporting rifles unless you do a chamber cast or 'slug' the neck on one that close in dimensions. Stilll, thats what you should do anyway if you arent doing a re-bore or going to a case body long enough to erase the neck.
On the practical side, a tiny bit of 'ring' might not be an issue as your size die will eliminate it on the brass when reloading and the all important throat should be fine for accuracy. The only issue might be sticky extraction?