My Second AR15/ I am building one

[SharonAnne]

I realize I have not finished "My Second .45" but i have decided to build a highly accurate long range AR15 in .223R/5.56N. I read about a guy in New Mexico who started up an F-AR15 class of competition at his home club. It will be like F/TR only for magazine fed (to keep from using ultra heavy too long for magazine loads) .223R/5.56N chambers ONLY. Since 1000 yd. ranges are not common and 300,500 and 600 yd are much more common he thought it would be a way to get more AR15 owners out to the range. I think most AR15 owners do NOT compete in 3 Gun matches and would be more likely to participate in sedate prone longer range shooting.  If the F-AR15 competition cannot get going in the Phoenix area there are still 300, 500, 600 and even one 1000 yd ranges available locally.

I invite comment on what I am doing and alternate recommendations or tell me what you have done with your AR15.

I have parts on order from Brownells and Precision Reflex (PRI).

From PRI I ordered:
 a PRI Gen III 15" forearm in Dark Earth. It has holes but no rails installed.
 The Rifle length forearm rail. This will tie the upper receiver and freefloat forearm together.
A 4" rail with sling swivel and bipod stud.
A 3" rail for attachment point with a Ching Sling.

From Browells I have ordered:
a Baer stripped chrome bolt carrier.
Command Arms AR15 Sniper Stock
Vltor MUR-1A Upper Receiver
Ergo ambi Sure Grip in Dark Earth
Magpul MOE Trigger Guard in Dark Earth

To be ordered:

POF_USA
Chrome plated roller cam pin
Chrome plated modified carrier key

Les Baer Custom
Chrome plated .223 bolt assembly

I will have Kreiger assemble the top end with one of their Varmatch barrels. Kreiger will do finish assembly with my supplied parts. It will be like buying an assembled upper but with top quality parts and much more expensive.

The Kreiger barrel

Stainless Steel
Length - to be determined
Gas system diameter - 0.937"
M-4 barrel extension
Muzzle diameter - 0.812" or 0.920"  undecided. The 0.812" muzzle barrel is 0.5 lb. lighter than the 0.930" muzzle barrel at 26" length
Flutes - 10. 3/16" wide, under the forearm and from gas block almost to muzzle.
Satin bead blasted.


It will be used with a bipod. For extreme range (1000yd) I am considering the new Sinclair F bipod. Harris and other bipods will be considered. Feedback please.

The sight is problematic. It will of course be a scope. Which is the question. The most favored is the Nightforce 12-42X56. At over $1900 it is just a tad pricey. I am considering the Bushnell 6500 4.5-30X50. At around $800 price wise it is much more attractive. The Sightron 10-50X60 at around $1000 is being used in F and F/TR 1000yd competition. I have read that the lenses are very good. The massively powerful March scopes are seldom seen because of their equally extreme price tag. The 5-50x52 is $3,500-3,900. The huge 8-80X56 costs $3,600-4,000.

I welcome constructive criticism, suggestions, and descriptions of your own projects.

[SharonAnne]

oh come on guys!  Does no one have anything to say?  We discuss the daylights out of other things, which is the best AR, which is the best 1911, yet now when I am building an AR15 and ASKING for input and feedback, you go silent. Please, talk to me.

[dmd1911]

Barrel twist?

[Old Syko]

Sharon to be honest, all the big names in the world don't mean a thing to me.  The last long range rig I put together was a RRA lower with a Jewell trigger and everything else was no name stuff including the barrel which was a 24" 1-7 stainless full bull threaded for a no name flash hider.  I hand fit everything to suit myself anyway so why spend the bucks for someone else to do it for me.  I modified 20 round mags by cutting away the front and rear to allow me to load only 5 rounds each but to lengths unheard of for any other AR.  Since you're looking to assemble from existing parts sounds like you have a pretty good hand on things.  At 525 yards from my back porch it does as well as any custom bolt gun with a .224 bore I've ever laid hands on and I've been familiar with a few of those.  I run up to 100 grain slugs that were disappointing at best.  75 and 77 grain match slugs from 2 different manufacturers work well. 


As far as optics go it's like with anything else, get the best you can afford and be happy with it.  If you can't afford something more expensive there is little sense in fretting over it.


I know none of this helps much but you were starting to sound desperate.   

[Dixie Dude]

Sharon, did they have what you needed to build your AR in stock?  I am having problems just trying to find a 300 blackout upper.  Ordered one, but it hasn't been processed yet. 

[SharonAnne]

ok, twist  1:7.7"

Well. the 300 Blackout is a very specialized upper.

I have given the purchase of an upper a great deal of thought too. Not having committed to the barrel I still have time. However Syko, I am not as conversant with the AR15 upper as I am the 1911 lower. I have neither the tools not the skill to fit a barrel, time the barrel extension, drill the gas port IN a groove or head space a new bolt.

I am not fretting over the optics. I AM looking for feedback. Syko, what do you use for your 525yd groups that work as well as many bolt guns. Since I intend this for the fledgling F-AR15 class, lengthening the magazine is forbidden. Standard length rounds only.

As I started out with, I want opinions and also to know what you have done that you are happy with, or unhappy for that matter.

Desperate, not at all. I am just accustomed to having my post read much and commented on little as on "My Second .45". I know there are opinions on Graybeard Outdoors. Heck, that IS what a blog is all about. I was feeling neglected.

[SharonAnne]

I went to several web pages today. Brownells, Midway, Command Arms, PRI. I juggled orders around. Midway had the Command Arms sniper stock available for $24 less than Command Arms did. It turned out that Midway had several pieces expected in less than a month. Brownells just said out of stock.  I also removed many Backorders.

Oh and I found a web page for Hornady 75gr AMAX bullets. I ordered 1200. They will arrive this week.
The PRI forearm and long rib are also on the way this week.  Brownells has shipped some things also.

[Old Syko]

Sharon on the subject of optics I prefer a 10x mildot for most of my AR needs and feel confident of man target accuracy to that 525 yd. point but for printing serious groups from the bench to that point I have a couple older 36x target scopes with long range mechanics installed.  They're nothing fancy and have been around a while but continue to work well.  I would love to have some of the glass you mention but that is why I made the comment about getting the best you can afford and being happy with it.  Sometimes nearly the same result can be achieved with less as long as you understand the mechanics of what you're dealing with.  Then again as I've said before, I have no desire to shoot in competition any more unless it is against an enemy.  I shoot merely to fulfill my own desires.


It is really not that tough to properly fit an AR even though some manufacturers seem to find it almost impossible.  There's very little specialty tooling needed.  For the most part it is a matter of taking proper measurements and implementing them with some precision.  I would bet with your experience and understanding it would go slick.  When you get done, if you don't need to use O-rings, accu-wedges, oversized pins and the like you're left with a piece that will perform with or even better than some much more expensive guns. 

[SharonAnne]

Old Syko, I have Leupold 3.5-10X50 Mildot scope. It is at least 20 yrs. old. I have never had the chance to shoot at a range beyond 300 yds. At that range it was just plinking. With M193 55gr ammo it was almost boring hitting a spring loaded 'ground squirrel' target. At the widest it was 4" wide where the 'tail' stood out. Pretty good accuracy for M193 ball.

[SharonAnne]

of all the stuff I ordered for my AR15 the only things to arrive are Six of the Surefire 60 rd. magazines. I got 3 twice. A goof up on my part.

I mentioned that at Thanksgiving I spoke with a young man headed for Iraq. He volunteered for a 3rd. tour. He was his squads SAW gunner. I asked his opinion on the IAR and he was all for it since it took about 8 lbs. off his kit.  Rather than the Beta 100 rd drums they will use the Surefire 60 and 100 rd mags. These too will reduce kit weight. The 60rd Surefire weighs 6.4oz, the 100rd. Surefire weighs 9.6 oz and the Beta Mag 100 weighs 2.25 pounds. For every Beta Mag lost and Surefire 100 used the kit load is reduced by 1.62 POUNDS. When you consider our Grunts are humping well over 60 lbs with some up to 100 lbs you can see where a soldier will be happy to lose 8 lbs here, 1.65 lbs there.

The M249 SAW weighs 17#, the M27 IAR weighs 8#, a saving of 9#. The standard (according to the SAW gunner I spoke with) ammo load is 800 rds.  A Beta Mag 100 weighs 2.25# or 36oz. The Surefire 100 weighs 9.6oz. 36-9.6=26.4oz saving per mag X 8 mags =13.2# savings.  Switching to the M27 IAR and using Surefire 100 rd mags instead of Beta Mag 100s results in a savings of 22.2#. That is huge to a soldier. I am going to guess the load will not get lighter, they will just carry more ammo.

[buckweet]

i built a standard 20" A4 with a bushmaster 1/7 twist government profile barrel..
cheap no name upper .. bravo company BCG... used A2 stock.
lower is a stag arms .. i putt in a rock river two stage trigger .
with hornady 75s .. she shoots lights out ..
ohh yeah and a luepold 4x16 on top  with forward mounting scope mount .
i dont have much money in the old girl .. and she will shoot better than most name brands.
just saying ... ya dont have to mortgage the farm .. for a good shootin AR.
build it yourself .. they are very eazy to build.

[SharonAnne]

Sadly I found out the 75 gr AMAX cannot be loaded to AR15 magazine length. Will have to find something else to do.

Buckwheet, sounds like a nice rifle, what size groups are "lights out"?

[jmayton]

I can load 75gr Hornady BTHP's in a standard mag. According to a friend who has a long-range AR says they are the only ones that heavy that will fit that he has found.

[SharonAnne]

thanks J. I found that out too late. Now I need to find someone who shoots overlong rounds at 600yds. Like the High Power AR15 shooters. They load singles for 600yds.