35cal Rechamber Ideas

[Dinny]

Dinny
I see you have looked at and rejected the 35-30/30. It's on my short list because it is easy, simple and cheap and of course it is rimmed. G66

I have, it's just too close to the 356 Win. I can easily load down to it's capabilities.

Thanks, Dinny

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

... mother .... may forfeit hers as soon as she shoots a shortened 45-70 next year at a deer.

I have an NEF shortened to 18.5" with the beavertail forearm....  now that is HANDI!

can't tell the difference between it and the 22".  both were scoped, so that may make a difference.

but I do want to put a receiver sight on it eventually.

Then, I'll want to shorten a couple others I have!

[Dinny]

Thanks for all the ideas and input. I think I have decided....

  I already have Whelen dies and bullets. I can get Prvi 7x65R brass for $108 per 100 shipped. I will need to have the barrel rechambered so I can also get the rim counterbore done at the same time. My plan is to anneal the Prvi brass for more durability and neck size to 30cal, then to 35 cal before I run it through a Whelen FL sizing die. Anything I have overlooked here?
 
If this works as well as I hope, my 35cal desires will be satisfied.  357 Maxi, .356 Winnie, and 35 Whelen R.


Thanks, Dinny

[Brian P.]

The 350 rem IS the ballistic twin of the whelen.  They just invented it to put it into a short action.  They used the belted case because it's already in supply and was wide enough to give the required capacity.   

[Dinny]

The 350 rem IS the ballistic twin of the whelen.  They just invented it to put it into a short action.  They used the belted case because it's already in supply and was wide enough to give the required capacity.   

You gotta good point there. Why couldn't the 350 rem Mag work in a Handi? It looks like it has lower pressures than the 270 Win.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

The larger case head of the 350 Rem and higher pressure make it unsuitable for the H&R platform, it provides considerable more breech(bolt) thrust than the Whelen, 10063lbs for the Whelen compared to 12815lbs for the 350 Rem, both values based on MAP(maximum average pressure). The 270Win which has a MAP of 65kpsi produces 11277lbs thrust for comparison. Just because the 350 and Whelen are ballistic twins doesn't mean they have the same internal ballistics.   

The large case head combined with high pressure issue if the reason why no mfr makes shortmag chamberings for the Encore platform for an example of magum case head issues.

There is a .358" Wildcat based on a magnum case that's suitable for the Handi, the 350 Jacob, but it's a handload only round, so the risk of a factory loaded round being chambered in it is not an issue.

Tim

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

[Dinny]

The larger case head of the 350 Rem and higher pressure make it unsuitable for the H&R platform, it provides considerable more breech(bolt) thrust than the Whelen, 10063lbs for the Whelen compared to 12815lbs for the 350 Rem, both values based on MAP(maximum average pressure). The 270Win which has a MAP of 65kpsi produces 11277lbs thrust for comparison. Just because the 350 and Whelen are ballistic twins doesn't mean they have the same internal ballistics.   

The large case head combined with high pressure issue if the reason why no mfr makes shortmag chamberings for the Encore platform for an example of magum case head issues.

There is a .358" Wildcat based on a magnum case that's suitable for the Handi, the 350 Jacob, but it's a handload only round, so the risk of a factory loaded round being chambered in it is not an issue.

Tim

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

That's why! Thank Tim, I knew you would have the answer, again.

Thanks, Dinny

[gendoc]

i hava 350 rem  ina other style shooter, an i'll tellya fact, it ain'ta whelen for sure in after tha fact
performance.  truely maybe a red-headed twin, but not even close......................

[Dinny]

350 Jacob

This is a homespun 358/300 Win. Mag. wildcat varient. It has only been chambered in two rifles as of this writing. The developer is a gunsmith who lives and works in Montana. He uses 225 Sierras (he tells me because he has a fairly large supply of them on hand) and has reached 3200fps with those bullets so far. It's case capacity is 84 grains of water and is FAR MORE EFFICIENT than the 358/378 above - though it just about matches its velocity with 225s. I'm told the short neck has not been a problem (as per the 300 Win.Mag. parent case itself).

That, in a Handi, would punish the shooter.

Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

Here's Gary's original post on the 350 Jacob.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,141778.msg1098565010.html#msg1098565010

I only have 2 rifles left to my name a H&R in 218 Bee and one in 350 Jacob (my own wildcat). I was hoping for the new magnum action, as were many of you, but it didn't happen and I already had a 35 Whelen barrel at Wayne York's being re-chambered and a muzzle brake being installed, so I have made do. The 350 Jacob is a belted magnum made from a 300 WM necked out to .358 and then fire formed to a 40 deg shoulder with no case taper. I guess you could call it a 358/300WM/AI but I named it after my son who was 1 yo at the time hence the "350 Jacob". In Jake's Winchester 70 our loads have cronoed 3250 fps with a 225 gr Nosler guite obviously too much for the Handi to handle, but the solution is the same one that 45-70 owners have done for years. There's 45-70 Trapdoor, 45-70 lever and 45-70 high power loads for Ruger#1 etc. I took my elk last season with a 225 nosler over 56 gr of R15(35 Whelen) and it did just fine, so I started the 350 Jacob at 57.5 gr of R15 and a 200 gr Hornady just to see what I would get and to fire-form some cases.The results were magnificent. No sign of pressure, very little recoil (Wayne's muzzle brake helping here) and accuracy a go-go (showing my age there) 5 shots all touching at 100 yds. In the initial development of the round I discovered many starting loads that gave moderate speed with great accuracy. I have always felt the 300 WM was a great round but seemed to need hot loading to do it's best. When enlarged to .358 the case becomes much more efficient and when fire-formed the cases have very little case stretch or shoulder separation (as touted by PO Ackley). I'm going to keep working along these lines with Nosler 225's and Barnes 225's as well as the Hornady 200's. The late James M. Stanley , gunsmith, engraver and my hunting buddy would say"Speed ain't everything lad, ya got ta hit it first". I'll try to post some pic's and crono reports in the future for those of you that are interested.
Regards to all - Fanner 50 aka Gary

[Brian P.]

Good info quickdtoo! 
 

The larger case head of the 350 Rem and higher pressure make it unsuitable for the H&R platform, it provides considerable more breech(bolt) thrust than the Whelen, 10063lbs for the Whelen compared to 12815lbs for the 350 Rem, both values based on MAP(maximum average pressure). The 270Win which has a MAP of 65kpsi produces 11277lbs thrust for comparison. Just because the 350 and Whelen are ballistic twins doesn't mean they have the same internal ballistics.   

The large case head combined with high pressure issue if the reason why no mfr makes shortmag chamberings for the Encore platform for an example of magum case head issues.

There is a .358" Wildcat based on a magnum case that's suitable for the Handi, the 350 Jacob, but it's a handload only round, so the risk of a factory loaded round being chambered in it is not an issue.

Tim

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

[Jeff H]

........My plan is to anneal the Prvi brass for more durability and neck size to 30cal, then to 35 cal before I run it through a Whelen FL sizing die.........

A RIMMED 35 Whelen!    
 
This sounds like a very cool project.

[gcrank1]

And for all the same reasons the old British line of Express cartridges were designed the same way  .

[45-70.gov]

if i were to wildcat




35 ruger compact.....oops no rim sorry...be a good bolt gun project

[quickdtoo]

The Ruger Compacts have big case heads, definitely not Handi friendly. 

Tim

[wganz]

Take a look at the .357 Herrett.
Might fit a niche for you.

[quickdtoo]

Take a look at the .357 Herrett.
Might fit a niche for you.

Been suggested by Dave29.

Tim

Dave,
  Although both that and the 357 Herrett are good choices, I want to stay in the Whelen class. I'm leaning real heavy towards the 35calx65R that G66 did. I already have a line on some brass.

Besides that will leave both of us with more change for Fourth Street Live.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

For those inquiring minds, while I was deciding, I looked into custom 35 Greevy Express dies from a few manufacturers. SSK Industries never heard of the 35 Greevy. CH4D offers Greevy dies for $83 and they have a 5-6 month wait.

Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

Good luck finding a reamer for the Greevy too without buying one, that was one of my first thoughts, but no one rents it! 

Tim

[Dinny]

Good luck finding a reamer for the Greevy too without buying one, that was one of my first thoughts, but no one rents it! 

Tim

Tim,
  Very good point. I gave up on the GE when I thought about dies and brass. Never did make it to reamer thoughts.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

Tim,
  Do you think pressures will be higher or lower with the larger diameter case head of the 7x65R brass compared to the 35 Whelen factory brass? I could always load to a lower pressure but that will somewhat defeat the purpose of going with a Whelen class cartridge when I laready have a .356 Win.

Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

The 7x65R has a slightly smaller case head than 35 Whelen, rim diameter is not relevent to bolt/breech thrust.

Tim

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

[Dinny]

Good to know, thanks Tim.

Thanks, Dinny