Whitetail load for 243

[papadave]

Got my first handi and going to use it for deer. What has everyone else used in a 243 heavy barrel?

[mechanic]

The Remington Cor Locs (100 gr.) work well for white tail.  Just don't use a varmint bullet, they don't penetrate well on deer size game too often.  My 243's shoot the Rem's into an inch with my handloads.
 
Ben

[hoytcanon]

95 grain Nosler Partition ahead of 42 grains of H4350 for 3100 fps... great deer load.

[quickdtoo]

I haven't hunted deer with any of my 243 H&Rs, but I wouldn't hesitate to use 100gr Federal Power Shoks. 

Tim

[Dinny]

Although not a Handi, my Weatherby SPM shoots the 95gr Federal Fusions real well. Not quite as good as Tim's Power Shoks, but close enough to break out the calipers. That bullet held up nicely for quick kills on the few deer I shot with it.

Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

I have used a few different bullets...

I like Speer 90g & 105g, Sierra 100BT and PB bullets. Also Hornady 100RN and Nosler 95 BT bullets. All work well. Guys who shoot long distances love the Sierra 85 BTHP. Awesome long range deer bullet.

For the past 4-5 years I have been using 100RN with 40g IMR 4320 powder. Kill 'em dead dead dead.

CW

[Squib]

i tried 70gr sierra blitzkings for headshots only on small does before.  knocks them stupid and they have seizures but don't necessarily die immediately.  I don't know that the weight is a huge deal but the rounds that open up easily can blow up TOO easily and they cannot get good penetration on a skull, let alone a shoulder or heavy rib.  remember that moving fast (which is the point of the 80gr and under bullets) a lot of those bullets that are meant for moderate expansion will still blow up on a close shot.  hornady interbond is really tough- I switched to that but haven't actually shot a deer with it yet.  it's easy enough to shoulder and hold a handi steady since they're so light (mine is a youth ultralight), it's a good platform for taking high-risk shots... just don't use the wrong bullets like I did.

[woodsrunner]

Killed a truckload of whitetails with good ole Rem. 100gr Corelocks, anywhere from 15-235 yds. Work for me--woodsrunner

[Brian P.]

The hornady 87gr sp is my general purpose bullet for 243.  For a dedicated deer round I would go with a bonded bullet or TSX.   H4895 and Varget are my best powders for it.

[geartow]

 Remington Core-Lokt (100 gr.).

[hoytcanon]

i tried 70gr sierra blitzkings for headshots only on small does before.  knocks them stupid and they have seizures but don't necessarily die immediately.  I don't know that the weight is a huge deal but the rounds that open up easily can blow up TOO easily and they cannot get good penetration on a skull, let alone a shoulder or heavy rib.  remember that moving fast (which is the point of the 80gr and under bullets) a lot of those bullets that are meant for moderate expansion will still blow up on a close shot.  hornady interbond is really tough- I switched to that but haven't actually shot a deer with it yet.  it's easy enough to shoulder and hold a handi steady since they're so light (mine is a youth ultralight), it's a good platform for taking high-risk shots... just don't use the wrong bullets like I did.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "good platform" for high risk shots. If it is "high risk" don't take the shot! The idea is to take "the lowest risk shot possible" and pass it up, if you are not confident of making a clean kill.

[Squib]

I hit exactly where I aimed, the bullet fragmented on the eye socket, didn't even enter before blowing apart.  that's what the problem is, bullet construction.  the problem/solution to this entire article.  perhaps you should read that before commenting?!  Just a thought..

if you're worried about "high-risk" then you shouldn't use handguns and bows at all, let alone argue the other stuff. 

if a headshot failing to be an immediate DRT scenario is unacceptable, then how do you condone body shots at all.  I've never seen a deer collapse from anything but a broken neck.  I've shot them in the head and armpit/shoulder and watched them "soldier on" before collapsing.... as a matter of fact the antlered buck I shot this year took a hit in the shoulder that failed to put him down immediately, so I shot him in his neck which severed his brainstem and stopped him.  That bullet (150gr .308 sierra softpoint) hit his left shoulder broadside and right-angled it's way out his left butt-cheek.  so much for "low-risk" shooting!  If I didn't follow up with another he'd have limped off and died from gut trauma.  how do you justify a heart shot that is covered by bone and heavy hide but not a skull?  last I checked the top of a deer's head (eyes/ears/dome- not snout and jaw) are bigger than the heart, and shut the animal down D- R- T- if pierced, while a heart shot allows quite a bit of running.

[Brian P.]

Taking a 'good' shot also means knowing and understanding the capabilities and limitations of your gun, caliber, and bullet.

[AtlLaw]

ARRRRRGGGGGGGG!     I can't stand it!!!  This thread keeps popping up!!! 
 
Okay, as I've said, when it comes to deer, the 243 makes a darn fine coyote caliber!   
 
That out of the way, as I've also said before I have killed a bunch of deer with the 243 and settled on the 100 gr. Sierra BT and max load of Rel 22 powder...  Only because that load shot the best in my rifle.      The only 243 I own BTW... 

[Squib]

coyote gun... yeah maybe.  I'm not convinced that a .243 can't do the job, but it's not optimal.  I'm convinced deer can survive (at least for a short while) a severe amount of head trauma, including having their heads split open.  If the brain, stem, or spine aren't tore up they just don't die quickly as intented. 

[cwlongshot]

Taking a 'good' shot also means knowing and understanding the capabilities and limitations of your gun, caliber, and bullet.

SPOT ON Brian!!!

CW

[OldSchoolRanger]

I admit to owing .243's, but I personally don't like the .243 for deer, preferring 7mm (.284Cal) or larger.  That said, a friend of mine uses the .243, and he gets the job done quickly and efficiently with it. 
If I did hunt deer with the .243, I would find out what the rifle likes.  I have a bolt that won't shoot 100gr Core-Locks, into anything smaller than a pie plate group, but it loves the 80gr Core-Locks. 1" group at 100 yards.  Go figure!
I have to agree with Brian when he says:

Taking a 'good' shot also means knowing and understanding the capabilities and limitations of your gun, caliber, and bullet.

[scratchmark]

All of my deer are shot through the body and almost everyone drops dead where they stood. Bullet construction is #1. You need a bullet that will come apart quick but not a blitz. The key is to have the full energy of the bullet be absorbed by the deer.Intense shock is what drops em. its like getting stabbed with a fast ice pick or getting slammed with a big hammer. People have been stabbed without realizing it immediately, yet when your hit by a heavier obeject, you dang sure know it quick.

[Brian P.]

The key is to have the full energy of the bullet be absorbed by the deer.

Not if it doesn't go through a bunch of vital organs.

[scratchmark]

exactly, thats why ya dont want a blitz. Mine have always gone completely thru, but i usually find some jacket under the hide on the opposite side. Have  even had em go from end to end and exit.

[scratchmark]

by the way, i'm speaking on general terms here as i have never even fired my 243 yet.

[jdl41389]

I have had good luck with win 1oogr power shock 5deer in last 2 seasons drt .But that being said shot placemet is key factor if cant get good shot I just letit go.


JDL

[Squib]

The key is to have the full energy of the bullet be absorbed by the deer.

Not if it doesn't go through a bunch of vital organs.

yeah, apparently concussive force to the head (approximately 1600 lbs at fifty yards) isn't a "give-me" either.  I thought that if the frangible round didn't get the shrapnel deep enough, then the concussion will be more than adequate.  WRONG!!! 

for what it's worth I shot a squirrel with the same load once... hit it in the armpit and thought the animal would blow up.  the animal looked normal externally EXCEPT the torso was wider than the shoulders by 2:1 or a bit more.  the rib cage opened up right down the sternum, abdomen split to the waist, all the internals were gone and/or shredded.  popped it open like an overcooked burrito, no exit wound on the offside either.  I went to pick it up a few minutes later, and it woke up and crawled about five yards when I grabbed the tail.  why it got a reboot and died for real I don't know.  Weird, since most of the viscera was pink stickyness on the branch it was sitting on.  I'm talking mist/dew, pink slivers like you'd pull off a hide, and hair stuck to it, NONE OF IT WAS SOLID ANYMORE!  weird things happen 

[mechanic]

I've never shot a deer in the head, or within a couple inchs of the spine and had it move at all.  My favorit shot is a neck shot, if I've got a deer still enough.  While their head is down and they are grazing, pop them just behind the head in the spine.  A head shot must be from above.  A side shot will just blow off jawbone if you're not careful.
 
Please don't try this if you don't know you can make the shot.  I hate to see animals suffer any more than necessary.
 
Ben

[hoytcanon]

I hit exactly where I aimed, the bullet fragmented on the eye socket, didn't even enter before blowing apart.  that's what the problem is, bullet construction.  the problem/solution to this entire article.  perhaps you should read that before commenting?!  Just a thought..

if you're worried about "high-risk" then you shouldn't use handguns and bows at all, let alone argue the other stuff. 

if a headshot failing to be an immediate DRT scenario is unacceptable, then how do you condone body shots at all.  I've never seen a deer collapse from anything but a broken neck.  I've shot them in the head and armpit/shoulder and watched them "soldier on" before collapsing.... as a matter of fact the antlered buck I shot this year took a hit in the shoulder that failed to put him down immediately, so I shot him in his neck which severed his brainstem and stopped him.  That bullet (150gr .308 sierra softpoint) hit his left shoulder broadside and right-angled it's way out his left butt-cheek.  so much for "low-risk" shooting!  If I didn't follow up with another he'd have limped off and died from gut trauma.  how do you justify a heart shot that is covered by bone and heavy hide but not a skull?  last I checked the top of a deer's head (eyes/ears/dome- not snout and jaw) are bigger than the heart, and shut the animal down D- R- T- if pierced, while a heart shot allows quite a bit of running.

Partner... I'm going to take at face value that you are an experienced hunter... but you sure don't sound like it. I don't know you, but it is highly unlikely that you have taken even a small fraction of the animals I have... mostly with archery equipment over forty years of big game hunting. The statements in red above, show your ingorance. A head shot IS high risk... a body (lungs) shot is NOT high risk... a lung shot animal will likely NOT drop right there, but it will die a quick and relatively painless death, and there will certainly be a considerable blood trail leading to the carcass. As for a shoulder shot... why would you aim at a mass of bone covering the vital organs on a broadside animal, when aiming 3-4" behind the shoulder will center the lungs, cause little meat loss, but massive vital tissue damage and result in an easily recoverd animal... it sounds like your bullet did what bullets do when they contact heavy bone... it broke up and splattered away from the vital organs... which is often the result from neophytes taking head shots also... I can't count the hours I have spent trailing deer, bears and moose that someone attempted a head shot on (thinking that it was a SURE thing)... there is just too much risk of a glancing blow and poor penetration... having said that, I know a local native hunter who has taken hundreds of deer with a .22 mag, by head shooting them... but not many can hunt as he does... he perches in a tree directly above a well used trail and shoots them through the top of the head from 15 feet... but he lays on a branch motionless for hours to do so... I cramp up just thinking about it. It sounds like you need an anatomy lesson. Also... where did you get the idea the using archery equipment is "high risk???" Bows used properly, within their limitations are as lethal as guns used properly within their limitations.

[cjrjck]

Two schools of thought with the smaller calibers like the .243 (heck maybe for all calibers): expansion versus penetration. Sometimes you can have both but with the smaller calibers that is less likely. I prefer controlled expansion and complete penetration, especially with the .243. I want an exit wound. That being said, I know a number of guys that use smaller calibers in Texas mostly for does or the smaller bucks in the Hill Country. They prefer the violent expending bullets. However, and this is the difference, they shoot from elevated blinds, wait for the perfect shot (or they won't take the shot and just wait until the next hunt because the deer will be back) and they shoot behind the shoulder (broadside only). Lung shots. Most of us hunting in other locations don't have that luxury.

I have seen several head shots on deer. A good friend does it only because the ranch owner wants a doe and the rancher has some old school idea that the meat tastes better that way. My buddy hates the shot but he makes them regularly. He is one the better shooters I know and waits for the perfect setup. Otherwise, the guys I hunt with down there when shooting their trophy bucks hunt with enough gun and aim for the shoulder. If you have ever tracked anything in that south Texas brush you will know why they do not want the buck to leave the sendero.

[Squib]

my point was that despite hitting the precise point one is aiming at, the bullet must perform and I failed in that regard when I loaded up that ammo in the first place.  I failed before I even fired.  Second, I misunderstood the anatomical positioning of the brain in a deer's head.  It's very thin and only in the tip top of the skull, the rest is throat and palate.  As for the brainstem, it's the diameter of a pencil, and the vertebra are really not that thick either, so a base of skull shot is iffy too.  It is a bad idea to put a blitzking through the bottom of the eyeball (shooting downward) and think that'll even hit the brain.  Had I used something that didn't completely fragment I may have broken the rear/base of the skull also (almost assuredly killing it immediately).  As it turned out, I blew out it's eye socket and palate.  A slow and painful death.  I tell this story regularly so others know that (from my shameful experience) being a competent shooter doesn't mean that anything goes.  I always believed that people saying that the .243 is no good, and that headshots are a no-no, were people that had no shooting skills.  I was arrogant, and believed that as a former marine, handloader, recreational shooter, etcetera I was better than those fools and could do whatever.  The simple and short answer is no.  I cannot.  I did have misconceptions about the anatomy of the animal and the capability of the bullet I fired that caused me to fail and carry that shame indefinitely.  I'd like to convince others to be more discerning- I care that much about the sport and the animals involved.

STOP PREACHING AND START TEACHING.  I'm glad to read that you have unfailing mystical powers that have ALWAYS "laid them out" over forty years... I don't believe it but I'm glad.  as for the rest of us lowly mortals, I'd like to share my failure so we can avoid it ever happening again (to us reading it at least).  as you claimed earlier, lots of people you have dealt with have failed believing headshots to be a sure thing.  count me among them, gloat, and go on about your business. 

[hoytcanon]

my point was that despite hitting the precise point one is aiming at, the bullet must perform and I failed in that regard when I loaded up that ammo in the first place.  I failed before I even fired.  Second, I misunderstood the anatomical positioning of the brain in a deer's head.  It's very thin and only in the tip top of the skull, the rest is throat and palate.  As for the brainstem, it's the diameter of a pencil, and the vertebra are really not that thick either, so a base of skull shot is iffy too.  It is a bad idea to put a blitzking through the bottom of the eyeball (shooting downward) and think that'll even hit the brain.  Had I used something that didn't completely fragment I may have broken the rear/base of the skull also (almost assuredly killing it immediately).  As it turned out, I blew out it's eye socket and palate.  A slow and painful death.  I tell this story regularly so others know that (from my shameful experience) being a competent shooter doesn't mean that anything goes.  I always believed that people saying that the .243 is no good, and that headshots are a no-no, were people that had no shooting skills.  I was arrogant, and believed that as a former marine, handloader, recreational shooter, etcetera I was better than those fools and could do whatever.  The simple and short answer is no.  I cannot.  I did have misconceptions about the anatomy of the animal and the capability of the bullet I fired that caused me to fail and carry that shame indefinitely.  I'd like to convince others to be more discerning- I care that much about the sport and the animals involved.

STOP PREACHING AND START TEACHING.  I'm glad to read that you have unfailing mystical powers that have ALWAYS "laid them out" over forty years... I don't believe it but I'm glad.  as for the rest of us lowly mortals, I'd like to share my failure so we can avoid it ever happening again (to us reading it at least).  as you claimed earlier, lots of people you have dealt with have failed believing headshots to be a sure thing.  count me among them, gloat, and go on about your business.

Well, that is straight up enough. The tone of this post and the point surely seems to have shifted from your first post (perhaps I totally misread it?)... It sounded to me like you were advocating head shots over "body" (lungs) shots... which in my mind is not a message we want to send to the masses. I am neither preaching nor suggesting that in forty years, I have never lost an animal (I have)... even with every detail considered and taking only the best of shots, stuff can and does go wrong. It is important for experienced hunters to get good information out there as much as possible... even so, there will be those who cut corners and take unnecessary risks.

[Squib]

sounds like we're on the same page now, and debating about what is and isn't high risk.  a fair topic, now that we're done arguing.  I feel that if I can hit a small grey squirrel on all fours broadside at 50 yds, I can shoot a deer in the "dome" of it's head.  I hear deer move their heads a lot, they don't when they're not spooked!  I've never seen them move as much as a squirrel either.  That's my reasoning, flawed or not.  I am much more careful with deer, as they are quite a bit harder to kill, but their heads are easier targets than a squirrels entire body.  My issue with chest shots on deer is that I cannot see the positioning of the bones and viscera, and lots of layers means lots of POTENTIAL deflection.  It's almost a give-me that the animal will die, but the time factor concerns me.  I shot my buck there while he was on the move (between trotting and running) and sure enough the shoulder blade pushed that bullet off course.  He WOULD have died from that wound, PROBABLY within the hour, probably would have gone into shock even, but I was scared to find out.  While you may think I had buck fever for sure at this point, I still had the calmness to figure out where his vertebrae were and tag those immediately after while he was still moving (with a bolt action, not a handi).... for me it reinforced that those bones are (especially when moving) able to push bullets off course.  If I'd have just shot him in the neck I'd have had him down and done the first shot.  That'll probably be where i aim from now on, as it is the ONLY time I've ever seen a deer flop over and go limp.  As for your guns, your ammo, your deer and your shot placement, do as you must.  I'm honestly scared of bodyshots, they aren't off limits but I usually cringe on doing so.

I've done a lot of shooting, not a lot of big game shooting though, which is where the ignorance came into the equation.  I took a "high-risk" shot that "threaded the needle" through tree branches, the brush the deer was behind, and the grass by it's face- I had zero anxiety because I had been practicing freehand/standing enough to hit dimes at 50yds consistently- the deer was still and nibbling buds and unaware of any danger.  I took my sweet time lining up, got my breath under control, felt as emotional as sighting in a scope.  I focused in and out a few times, squeezed the trigger a few tries while the hammer was down to be sure I was settled.  This was not a snapshot, there was no pressure.  There was no last second movement from the deer, my hands were still, my heart calm, no wind.  My statement of high-risk was regarding the difficulty in making the complex/demanding shot, not my judgement regarding the potential lethality of a brainshot.  I still do not believe it's in question at all, if the bullet gets there- which is where I was so wrong.  You brought up bullets deflecting, I've heard that too, that's why I wanted to go through the eye socket (or mouth).  I've heard of people shooting up the nose, I'd not trust the nose to keep the bullet in line though.  As for my recent shoulder shot that right-angled, the buck was in the open and the 150gr sierra #2125 only hit the edge of the scapula/shoulder blade, it didn't hit the socket within. It didn't even bust the shoulder blade, DID manage to bust the left lung somehow (energy transfer when it fish-tailed?!) and the bullet hole leaving the butt was nice and round, I don't think it even opened up!  The only thing I TRY to hit shoulders with is 45-70 (too many loads to get into, and they DESTROY the entry site straight to the exit, but still FAIL to DRT in my experience).   


This conversation got me to finally load up those 95gr SST's I've had sitting around since last christmas I think.  The last day of "firearms" season is tomorrow though.  Gonna have to wait till next year for the .243. 

Hear that papadave, 45-70 and .308 win aren't knockouts either.  This much I am ABSOLUTELY SURE of, whatever you're afraid of with .243, can happen with bigger.  It has for me!

[hoytcanon]

Well from that post it is clear that I read it right the first time... and we are definitely NOT on the same page. "Afraid" of body (lung) shots??? What the heck is that??? Shooting for "eye sockets" and "mouths" or "up noses!" What the heck is that???
You are right about one thing... I am done arguing! May you render every deer you shoot at; "blind, mute and scentless!"