223 Ilion Ultra out for the 1st time

[S8Raz]

My 1st post.
Just took my new "Ilion" 223 Ultra to the range this afternoon. I'm not necessarily new to Handis - I traded my '08 vintage (Gardner) SB1 Ultra Slug 20 for it which wasn't getting any trigger time. $3/trigger squeeze for sabot slugs hits the wallet a little hard, plus I reload for everything I shoot, so I figured switching to an SB2 and the barrel accessory program would be the way to go. Wanted to get into chasing 'yotes which are getting plentiful here & 223 seemed a good caliber to play with.  (nothing you haven't heard hundreds of times).
 
After the J-B break in and chamber polishing mentioned in FAQs, I got the new piece grouping fairly well w/a Midway 50gr psp ahead of 23.5gr of 3031. It was about 1/2" at 50 & I wasn't measuring groups at 100 - yet.
 
Anyway, even after about 80rds, the trigger on the new 223 is heavy to say the least.  The old 20ga SB1 was on the heavy side, but nothing like this one.  I'd say its in the 6#+ range.  I've shot FAL's with lighter triggers. (think "staging").
 
Does the non-invasive press-on-the-hammer (hard) and pull trigger method from FAQs really lighten things up?  If not, what has been the recent experience w/turn around time for Ilion on barrels and trigger work?
 
btw, I was a little disappointed that Ilion doesn't mark "Ultra" on the barrels like they did in Gardner.  It is after all, the deluxe model...

[S8Raz]

First, my apologies for what seems to be barging in as there are were no replies on my earlier post.  This must have garnered myself a spot on a few ignore lists.  Not my intent.
 
I'm just an antsy New Englander trying to get some answers from what appears to be the source of all info NEF.
 
Anywhoo.  Looks like the 223 is going back to Ilion for an off-center primer strike anyway.  I'll have them look at the trigger pull while they're at it.
 
Any suggestions on proper GBO etiquette would be greatly appreciated.
 
thanks,

[tacklebury]

Welcome to GBO boards.  As you've looked at the FAQ's first you're off to a better start than many here.    Don't know about ignore lists, but yesterday was beautiful here and I never even logged in.  hehe  Off center primer strikes are a non-issue to me, if they still go bang every time.  I have only 1 barrel that's perfectly centered, but none of my 6 barrels fail to ignite the round even with CCI primers (hard) every time.  I've never weighed my trigger pulls, but I don't think they are quite 6#.  I would say 4-5# on my three receivers, but my .45-70 BC receiver was a bit harder at first, but broke in after a couple hundred shots.  You might give yours some time to break in also and find that it's fine.  Some have tried lightening theirs to it's detriment and ended up with FTF's due to the transfer bar style safety.  I can put 3 shots into .875" at 100 yards with the .45-70 and iron sights, so I figure that's fine for me.  Typically we refer to them as H&R's not NEF's too.  hehe    Lots of good ammo though and member Brian56 is our contact at H&R service.  He'd be the one you should probably Private Message (PM) concerning lead time and he may have advice or a label he can send your way etc.  Might drop him a line.  Good luck figuring out your issues. 

[geezerbiker]

Same here in Oregon.  We're finally having some dry weather and damn if we don't deserve it...

Anyway on the .223 I bought new in 02, the trigger was awful.  What I did was in the evening when just sitting around watching the tube, I'd dry fire it.  I put a leather glove on my left hand and used my gloved thumb to catch the hammer as it dropped.  I didn't lube it and I dry fired it until it was 2 or 3 times harder to pull the trigger then I flushed out the action with Ed's Red bore cleaner.  After that the trigger pull was much smother but still around 5 pounds.

One of these days I'm going to do a trigger job on it to get it down to 3 pounds but for now, I can live with it.

Tony

[S8Raz]

Geezer; Tacklebury;
Thanks for the replies.  Very good site you folks have here.  Kudos to the moderators; hosts and fellow infomaniacs.
Sorry, NEF is a hold-over in my noggin.  I'm close to the original H&R location (Worcester) and around here they're kind of used interchangably. (no puns intended).
The warranty folks offered up a free UPS return tag, so I'll take them up on it.  I'll have them look/adjust the trigger too while they're feeling generous.
My concern on the off-center strikes was velocity variations.  I need all the help I can get accuracy-wise.  I usually use CCI primers, but these were Rem 6.5's. (not that it really made any difference - they went bang) 
I know the firing pin comes down at an angle in this design, but I'd like it to hit where its supposed to.  Annoying after having it home for only 2 weeks.  We'll see what the repair center says.  If nothing else, the trigger will get a review.  The 6#+ figure is a guess on my part as I don't have a reliable scale.  Mighty stiff.  The return gives me occasion to pony up for a 30-30 barrel and rail and get the whole "waiting for the brown truck" sequence over and done with.
Thanks too for the hint on the service contact.  I may just drop him a PM.

[tacklebury]

Yah, a 30-30 is one for the hopefully near future for me also.  My intention is to make it a 30-40 Krag though, since I already load these and it gives more play with powder room. 

[S8Raz]

Tacklebury;
I tend to make the bigger cartridges shoot "smaller".  My pet -06 load w/3031 & 170g fp in our P17 sporter is ~2400fps - right in Krag territory.
Saw your experiments on reduced 223 loads.  H4895 obviously gets into 22mag velocities.  Where did you get your Unique data?  The folks @ Alliant didn't have any data.

[bikerbeans]

Hi,

The non-invasive trigger modification will work but can do damage if you use too much force pushing on the hammer.  If you over do it then you can do an "invasive" trigger job while you are installing a new trigger/hammer.    I have done several of my Handis by the non-invasive method, just the ones that had mega trigger pull.  I haven't had any failures associated with this modification.  BTW, I noticed if do a non-invasive trigger job in the house and leave the barrel on the frame my wife and dogs start to get kinda nervous after a few minutes.  I don't think they trust me very much.
 
BB

[revbc]

Just go ahead and do the trigger job.  It''s not hard once you get over the first one.  All I do is take the two pins of the trigger group out, polish the pins and trigger with JB and dremel, lube with a mix of super lube and bullet moly.  Usually have around a 3lb trigger after that.  Make you a dummy pin to hold it all together when reinstalling, as per FAQs/Perklo.

[S8Raz]

Got my 223 back from Brian56 after he fixed a bent firing pin and did some muzzle crown work on the barrel.  Trigger pull is better, just not what I'm used to. It will take some practice.
Attached is a pic from the first group of record at 100yds.   This was a starting load w/3031.  Reduced loads w/H4895 were not as good, although they may require additional load development.
Little bit of vertical stringing as the group went on due to barrel heating and not keeping the rest up near the hinge pin.  The first 5 rounds while the barrel was cool were around the top of the orange spot.

[S8Raz]

Just did the trigger job per Perklo.  All I can say is "aaaahhhhhhhhh......."  at 3lbs 10oz to 3lbs 12oz.  Now it matches the Timney in my M1917. 
Brian had it twice.  It was really stout the first time.  Last time back, I measured 7lbs 10oz to 6lbs 12oz.  I understand his hands are tied to replacing parts and making adjustments to barrels.  He certainly did a great job straightening those out, now its got a trigger to match.
Time to put a few boxes of reloads together and head to the range.......

[cwlongshot]

Great to hear/ read about your new trigger!!!

You mentioned your a new englander. I'm in Connecticut, where are you?

CW

[S8Raz]

CW;
I'm a fellow Nutmegger. 
Up in the "Forgotten Corner" as we like to say around here.

[cwlongshot]

CW;
I'm a fellow Nutmegger. 
Up in the "Forgotten Corner" as we like to say around here.

I know it fairly well!

Here is a pic of my pop just below the covered bridge



Here is a rainbow outta the Farmington near Hitchcock Chair co.



Or are you in "other" corner near Brooklyn off RT6?  I chase Bambi up there too! off Beaver swamp road.

CW

[S8Raz]

CW;
Yep, the other corner.