Author Topic: Old eyes (Read 1306 times)

xhare · « **on:** August 25, 2012, 02:44:04 PM »

I took my SB2 frame with Talo 44 mag barrel shooting yesterday. I have already put a Williams peep on it. Well, its not enough. I could keep the rounds within 2-3 inches windage at 50 yards, but I had a lot of vertical separation. I just cant see the front sight well enough to be certain of where I'm pointing it. So, I'm going to scope it. The rifle stock is a standard synthetic found on the the synthetic 45-70.

So here are my questions.

1. What is the best scope mount to buy? I like the Ironsighter because it has lots of grooves, but I also saw a picatinny rail. Any opinions or experience would be appreciated. I plan on mounting a low mag compact scope (ie short).

2. I also want to switch stocks. I thought this is a good opportunity to upgrade to the laminate thumbhole stock. Is this only available in cinnamon? Also, were does one order it from.

Thanks in advance for the opinions, information, and help.

bilmac · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:07:27 PM »

You wouldn't be using a bead front sight would you? I missed a few shots before I got smart and made sure my front sights were blades, no little round thingy up there to cause confusion. There is a reason you never ever see a bead front sight on a military rifle.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:28:03 PM »

Quote from: bilmac on August 25, 2012, 04:07:27 PM

You wouldn't be using a bead front sight would you? I missed a few shots before I got smart and made sure my front sights were blades, no little round thingy up there to cause confusion. There is a reason you never ever see a bead front sight on a military rifle.

+1 on a blade front sight. I especially can't get along with the fire sights; with my 68 y.o. eyes they turn into a giant ball of light at the end of my barrel. I even had to stop using the Sourdough Patridge front sights I have used since 1964 because the gold insert had the same results. Well, I really painted it black rather than remove it, but you get the idea.

-Kees-

xhare · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:30:03 PM »

Nope. Standard front blade. My eyes just can't focus that close anymore.

OSOK · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:30:16 PM »

The front sight on my Talo .357 is a blade, but it is pretty thick. A blade that appears larger that you target makes it hard to hold consistently. A thinner blade might help you. I also found that a coat of flat white paint followed by a coat of fluorescent orange made seeing the front sight clearly much easier.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2012, 06:02:13 PM »

I'm 65. Can't see a dern thing without my glasses. Or so I thought. I bought sights for my Buffalo Classic from Skinner Sights. Lordy, what a difference. Better than a scope. When I look through the rear peep at the thin brass blade (without glasses), it all comes together. I think a person would have to be nearly blind not to be able to center that thin bright blade in the middle of the rear peep. That's because the rear sight is very close to your eye. You can't look through it without seeing the center. Your brain automatically finds the exact center. I can't miss with that 45/70.
Regarding fire sights, for older eyes, they catch too much light and cause a blur, front and rear. Not good for precision shooting.
I don't mean to say that some folks can't even see quality peep sights. I reckon we're all headed in that direction. In those cases, a scope is needed. I ain't there yet. I got lots of rifles, but they all have peeps, except a .22 Magnum that came with no sights and no place to install sights. I have a scope on that one, but the others are all peep sight mounted. I recommend trying the correct peep sights before resorting to a scope. Lots of people give up on iron sights because they don't have the correct ones to start with. A good set of peep sights and front blade is very personal. Take time to find what works for you. In general, a bigger hole in the rear sight makes for easier acquisition of the front blade, and a thin front blade way out on the end of the barrel makes it easier to "aim small." A bead front sight, IMO, is close to useless except for short rifles that must find the target immediately, as in a rugged rifle used for close encounters on big or dangerous animals. The Marlin Guide Gun comes to mind.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2012, 06:14:12 PM »

The only thing I use iron sights for anymore is my handguns. Even these I have used yellow Testor's model paint on the ramps.

My most recent rifle to scope was a CZ .22 mag that now wears a 1-4X20 Leupold shotgun scope.

gendoc · « **Reply #7 on:** August 26, 2012, 12:43:33 AM »

hard ta beat tha simmons 4x pro-diamond sg scope.... adjustable quick focus eye piece

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 26, 2012, 04:18:56 AM »

Regarding peeps, many make the mistake of trying to use too small an aperture thinking it will tighten up the groups; not so!
I usually wear bifocals, and have a couple of older outdated sgl. vision glasses that work pretty well for most shooting (try them all to 'see'). I had to relearn keeping both eyes open and my groups are better (Ive tested this with side by side targets; both eyes open then closing the left). I do this with open, peep, or scoped guns.
I have shot a lot of target matches and hardly anyone uses bead sights, and when they do it is for certain specific situations. It can get difficult to define the very top of a blade, so we carry a little tube of 'white out'(remember typewriters?) and a black MagicMarker to have 'tune-up' options.
What almost all target shooters agree on is that you focus on the front sight and let the rear and the target blur. I tend to re-focus between the front and rear to get my initial sight picture, then focus on the front and its placement as regards the somewhat blurred target, and let fly. When the magic works, I still often place or (occasionally) win.
I also have scopes on some, and with my eyes do appreciate them! But I keep at shooting the old open sights on some sporting rifles and peeps on several vintage target rifles just to keep the discipline up, and it helps at lot. I surprise myself with some challenging hits and it is very satisfying (BIG surprise!! hits are more fun than misses....

).

Specifically to your elevation variations vs windage: Is this off the bench? It is so easy to not get the buttstock quite into the same position each time, or your body leaned in the same, and it changes the recoil impulse enough to do what you say. Some days are worse than others......Try it again, paying more attention to your positioning and see what you get. Also work on keeping that front sight top right in line with the open rear top, centered in the notch, then line it up with a bullseye sitting right on top of the blade (I cannot hold center on a bullseye and get tight groups compared to using a 6:00 hold). If you are using a peep (I know, they say ignore it) do make an initial reference of the front being somewhat in the middle of that rear hole, then settle in and go.
Hope some of this helps!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2012, 05:03:41 AM »

Quote from: xhare on August 25, 2012, 04:30:03 PM

Nope. Standard front blade. My eyes just can't focus that close anymore.

i NEVER focus on the sights....only on the target
but thats me not you

have you tried a red-dot???......i mean more than few looking through them or just a few shots
if you haven't you don't know what your missing
if you have tried them ....did you keep both eyes open??

i suggest bushnell trs-25.....eye relief is not an issue

with a scope [and high mount to clear hammer]
you may want a montycarlo stock change too

ratdog · « **Reply #10 on:** August 26, 2012, 05:50:25 AM »

got the same eye problem got my eyes checked last week they have changed a lot got new glasses coming this week can't wait got a few rifles that i am going to sight one my old Mauser 98 that i put a taller front sight on it shoots real high the raplacement went right in. more fun.

xhare · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2012, 03:34:52 PM »

So can anyone help me with a laminate thumbhole stock? Should I call H&R for that?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 26, 2012, 03:37:00 PM »

H&R or Boyd's, H&R part numbers are on the retail parts page in the FAQs.

Tim

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/NEF-or-H-R-Thumbhole-Stocks-s/204.htm

bikerbeans · « **Reply #13 on:** August 26, 2012, 03:46:36 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 26, 2012, 05:03:41 AM

i NEVER focus on the sights....only on the target
but thats me not you

45-70,

It took me about 1000 rds with a 1911 45ACP bullseye gun to learn this simple truth. The knowledge transfers to the Handi very nicely. My list of open sighted handis is ever increasing and I now have several nice scopes sitting on the shelf. Bad eyes and all I am finally learning how to shot with open sights and I LIKE IT!

BB

xhare · « **Reply #14 on:** August 26, 2012, 04:28:49 PM »

Thanks Quick.

And thanks everyone for the advice on open sights.

xhare · « **Reply #15 on:** August 26, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »

Now, which color do I want. Hmmm.

spikehorn · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2012, 06:07:58 PM »

+1 with gendoc on the simmons pro diamond 4X. I bought one of the SS ultra hunters with laminate thumb hole stock. I do alot of still hunting and spot and stalk. Didn't like the thumb hole so much for that. It would have been fine if I was sitting in a blind or up in a tree stand. I put a set of cinn lamms on it and put the thumb hole on my 223.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:26:55 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on August 26, 2012, 03:46:36 PM

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 26, 2012, 05:03:41 AM

i NEVER focus on the sights....only on the target
but thats me not you

45-70,

It took me about 1000 rds with a 1911 45ACP bullseye gun to learn this simple truth. The knowledge transfers to the Handi very nicely. My list of open sighted handis is ever increasing and I now have several nice scopes sitting on the shelf. Bad eyes and all I am finally learning how to shot with open sights and I LIKE IT!

BB

as a child...i had a scope on my pellet-gun...sheridan 5mm
so scopes are what are second nature to me

i do better than most with a revolver...much better than most
and i refuse to scope them....and always focus on the target

that said i have a few skinner sights on a few handis and a ruger 10/22
i like playing with them on targets.......but getting to hunt as little as i do
i just can't handicap myself
last game i took was a turkey on the fly with a 44mag winchester trapper and a red-dot
a red-dot is as fast as it gets.....and better than anything in bad light

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:06:15 AM »

FWIW, I tried a red-dot type and was truely surprised at the accuracy I achieved even with what seemed to be that big red dot. Accurate and grouped pretty tight........and if that was all I was after it would have been fine, but.......as an incurable romantic Im into this for the esthetic too (ie; looks are important) and I couldnt warm up to the 'look'. That, and the way batteries go out with me.
That esthetic thing is quite an affliction.

Buster95 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 16, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on August 25, 2012, 06:02:13 PM

I'm 65. Can't see a dern thing without my glasses. Or so I thought. I bought sights for my Buffalo Classic from Skinner Sights. Lordy, what a difference. Better than a scope. When I look through the rear peep at the thin brass blade (without glasses), it all comes together. I think a person would have to be nearly blind not to be able to center that thin bright blade in the middle of the rear peep. That's because the rear sight is very close to your eye. You can't look through it without seeing the center. Your brain automatically finds the exact center. I can't miss with that 45/70.
Regarding fire sights, for older eyes, they catch too much light and cause a blur, front and rear. Not good for precision shooting.
I don't mean to say that some folks can't even see quality peep sights. I reckon we're all headed in that direction. In those cases, a scope is needed. I ain't there yet. I got lots of rifles, but they all have peeps, except a .22 Magnum that came with no sights and no place to install sights. I have a scope on that one, but the others are all peep sight mounted. I recommend trying the correct peep sights before resorting to a scope. Lots of people give up on iron sights because they don't have the correct ones to start with. A good set of peep sights and front blade is very personal. Take time to find what works for you. In general, a bigger hole in the rear sight makes for easier acquisition of the front blade, and a thin front blade way out on the end of the barrel makes it easier to "aim small." A bead front sight, IMO, is close to useless except for short rifles that must find the target immediately, as in a rugged rifle used for close encounters on big or dangerous animals. The Marlin Guide Gun comes to mind.

Which front sight do you have installed on your rifle?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2012, 12:23:33 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on August 26, 2012, 03:46:36 PM

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 26, 2012, 05:03:41 AM

i NEVER focus on the sights....only on the target
but thats me not you

45-70,

It took me about 1000 rds with a 1911 45ACP bullseye gun to learn this simple truth. The knowledge transfers to the Handi very nicely. My list of open sighted handis is ever increasing and I now have several nice scopes sitting on the shelf. Bad eyes and all I am finally learning how to shot with open sights and I LIKE IT!

BB

BB,
Any bullseye shooter who shoots competitively, when shooting open sites, focus on the front site!!

I know it is what you guys believe, and I am sure its working for you. But you don't for one second fool me.

No sights means no accuracy.

In order to shoot open sites accurately you need to focus on the front sight, before dropping the hammer, period. The target, and the rear site are "fuzzy" but the front sight should be sharp.
You can get any eye doc worth using to set a pair of glasses to this for you. Personally, I use a old set of frames and keep them in the shooting box. That way you just pay for the lenses.
Wanna prove it to yourself? Just remove the sights, or even just the front site. Seeing as you don't use them.

I'll bet you don't shoot so good anymore.

Now what your using the red dot/scope, yes I agree. You focus on the target and you will sub consiously "see" the dot/reticule and center it on the target. Kinda the same way the peep works, you don't focus on the hole, but naturally look thru the center of it.

CW