Author Topic: The 243 has garnered a reputation for erratic performance, according to some (Read 2070 times)

watkibe · « **on:** April 30, 2012, 04:28:25 PM »

Anyway, that's what Frank Barnes says right before he gives the 243 loading data in Cartridges of the World, ed. 12. I have a new 243 regular weight 22" barrel for my Handi Rifle.
I loaded 5 rounds first, 36 gr H4350, 100gr Sierra Pro Hunter, CCI LP primer, and new W-W cases.
First one sounded louder & had bigger blast, and more recoil than I expected. The primer looked rather flat. Second round had the "gas leak dent" I showed a picture of here some weeks ago; had a flat primer too. Accuracy was about 6 inches at 25 yards. One or two times the action opening lever was hard to press open.
Then, I tried starting loads with H380 and Varget, same bullet, etc. I got velocities close to the book values, at 50 yards, I had 2 inch groups. The primers were still flat, and 2 of 6 shots had the hard-to-push action opening lever problem.
All the powders were suggested in manuals as being good for this cartridge. The data is from Hodgdons 2012 booklet. I am afraid to try increasing loads to get the velocities the cartridge is known for, because of the flat primers.
My only plan right now is to buy some lighter bullets and see how that does. Eventually I may need to make a chamber casting, and maybe take/send the gun to a gunsmith or H&R.
Does anyone have any ideas about whats going on, and how to fix it, please ? Being hard to open means something, I'm sure, just not to me. Who knows why that happens ? Let me know please.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2012, 04:50:45 PM »

The same thing happened to me with a 22-250. Factory and reloads and NOT max.
Mine locks up good but there is a little gap when closed. Have to hold it up to the light and look really close. Check yours, may not be the same thing. I need to get around to sending it to be repaired. Good Luck

Added: Look for the gap AFTER firing a round and BEFORE pushing the release.

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2012, 04:52:20 PM »

You are right about 243's being fickel, especially in a H&R. If you are looking for a bad actor and line up all the different cal Handis, the best bet for a bad one is the .243. It is a high pressure large case small neck round, everythign a H&R doesn't like. Larry

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2012, 04:56:36 PM »

What is the COL you are loading the 100 gr. ProHunter?

Bill

bikerbeans · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2012, 12:49:56 AM »

remove your extractor and check for negative headspace on a loaded round. Another way to do this is to primer a cartridge, chamber and shoot it (primer only no bullet or powder) and then run a straight edge across the casehead. If you have negative headspace the primer will try and back out of the pocket and you will feel/see it with the straight edge. Also measure and make sure you don't have the bullet touching the rifling.

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2012, 04:54:57 AM »

The 243 Handi has a lot of potential when loaded properly with a properly fitted barrel, all of mine shoot good to excellent depending on the barrel profile, all shooting done at 100yds.

Tim

nova71 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:06:15 PM »

I have had four of the handi 243's and none of them liked the 100 grain bullets. at present my 243 Ultra likes the 87gr bullets. last time out I shot a three inch group at 300 yards. I think it will do better

it impressed my son because he thinks the old man can't shoot anymore. on the same day I was getting 4-6" groups with the 100gr bullets at 100 yards. so I'm giving up on the 100gr and gonna stick with what the rifle likes.

TNBilly · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:38:44 PM »

No one said anything so far in this regards so

What primer are you using? CCI does not make a primer designated LP as in your post. Translating a bit- if you actually are using CCI's (LP) large pistol primers #300's then it would go a long way in explaining your flat primer and sticking to open problems. Please get back with what exact primer you used.

gendoc · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2012, 01:43:42 PM »

The 243 has garnered a reputation for erratic performance, according to some....

an thats how i get my kicks !!!!!

prooven'um wrong

there gun, there barrel, there ammo, there bench, there JUNK.........THERE WRONG !!!!
and all that believes it too..........

it shows yur ability and yur dedication to these handi's

i have 2 .243 handi's, an most here knows, ifin it don't perform, it becomesa donor of some sort
so tha kids can experiment

hmmmmmmm, let me think.... i gotta total of 8 or ten different brand .243's
an all will do as good as i make'um do !!!!!!!!
how bouta summery........ "SOME" ARE WRONG

jeneks84k10 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2012, 02:07:29 PM »

Cant help much with your problem but I have a .243 heavy barrel handi and a superlight model and both shoot awesome with no modification other than o-ring under the forend and do it with factory ammo, shooting 87 and 95 grain. Both like the 87 grain a little better but the 95 grain was good enough to hit a doe in the neck at 250 yds.

I was a bit nervous about getting my .243 hb after reading some info about .243 handi's but my wife's superlight shot fine and the .243 is one of my favorite rounds so I got it anyways and couldnt be happier. Some day soon Ill start reloading and that should open up its potential a little.

Dave Pitcher · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2012, 01:13:14 AM »

I don't have a Handi in .243. My first ever long range woodchuck rifle was a bolt .243. Got it back in 1962 and still have it. I used 43.5 grains of 4350 and a Sierra 75 grain HP. It sho 3/4" all day long and the departed wood chucks can attest to that. Won a couple of turkeys at turkey shoots.

Don't know how that load would work in a Handi but it might be worth the try.

My $.02.

moorepower · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2012, 08:17:54 AM »

You are 1 grain UNDER the the starting load for H4350. H4350 will do exactly as you described with a light of load. Slow powders should never be loaded under starting loads. You also should check your primers to make sure they are LR primers.

watkibe · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2012, 04:15:06 PM »

Thanks for all the great replies.
OR E GUNBill -LOA was 2.650"
BikerBeans - Will check headspace, not familiar with "negative", have only heard of excessive or inadequate. Also, I verified that the bullet is not touching the rifling.
TNBilly - Fortunately I was more careful choosing my primers than my letters. I used CCI large rifle primers. Good catch, thx.
Nova71 - I have tried some 75gr Vmax, and primers, velocities and accuracy are better.
moorepower - The first 2 rounds had 37.0 gr H4350. The first one had a scary flat primer, and the second one had the gas leak dent. I broke down the rest and reweighed the charges. All were close enough to 37.0, allowing for the little bit you always lose in the bullet puller. Out of, perhaps an excess of, caution, I reloaded the same 3 with 36.0 gr. The primers were still flat, I got about 2600 fps and a 1.5" group at 50 yds.

I have tried the 58gr Vmax, 75gr Vmax, and the 100gr Sra PH, all in Winchester brass that I bought new for this project. Some rounds have been fired 1, 2, or 3 times by now. Except for the brass I used the first firing of the 58 gr, all has required trimming after each firing, according to my Lee trim tool. I have never loaded a cartridge that stretched brass like this. Probably time to start measuring before trimming. I am fixing to use my little wire hook tool and mini mag lite to look for incipient head separations on the inside of the cases. I don't see the light colored stretch ring on the outside yet though. I also bought a micrometer, after loading 15 or so cartidges for 20-30 some years with just a dial caliper. I understand that there is some juju in measuring case head expansion, or at least in interpreting it. Fortunately I worked at a job where we used the mic all the time, so hopefully it will come back.
OH BTW>>>TIM: SHOWOFF!!! Thanks for your pretty pictures and ardent defense of your beloved Handi 243s. I love mine too, even the 243, so you don't have to preach to the choir, lol ! I didn't just float in here from some other site to cause trouble, haha ! I even just wrote a check for the server fund. I hope it gets that big inconvenient yellow sign off my computer screen.

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2012, 04:37:57 PM »

The Sierra ProHunter SP 100 gr. in my .243 Handi touches the lands at 2.664". And I also started out setting the COL at 2.650" just as you and experienced similar symptoms with apparent over pressure. Tried 95 gr. Nosler BT and 87 gr. Hornady V-Max and found them to be more accurate than the 100 gr. ProHunter without any problems.

Bill

twoshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2012, 02:41:27 PM »

My first handi was a 243/ 20 ga combo from Wally World, I wanted something "cheap" and light for the wife and grandson to shoot. This was of course before I had the virus........
I wanted to produce a load that was equivalent to a 250 Savage, low recoil. I got 500 Rem 80 gr soft points on sale, and started with 39 gr of IMR 4350..... and stopped. Seated to the cannelure it puts 3 under a nickle on my 75 yard range with the cheap 4X Bushnell scope, and that should be right about 2900+ fps. Turned out that it still bounced a bit, my wife had breast cancer surgery which causes alot of shoulder issues, so I got a 357 barrel. The 243 is just fine though, I do watch resizing, I probably will get a Lee collet die at some point. I will probably keep it unless they ever make a 25/35.

smokehouserex · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2012, 03:33:40 PM »

Put me down as one who loves the 243 also. Haven't had but 2 of them and still have them both. The Browning Safari is my favorite varmint gun. I've had better results with the 75-85 gr. bullets as opposed to the 100's.
The 37grs.of 4350 sounds too light for the 100gr.243, it sounds more like a 100gr bullet load of 4895. I have not had any success with the 100gr.loads, but that don't matter because I use the 243 for varmint shooting mostly. I have killed deer with it but I like it for ground hogs and crows ect. I did get a 1 1/2 group with 42.5grs. of 4350/100gr sie.. The 70 &75 gr bullets will usually go less than an inch regularly with 39 grs. 4895/70gr speer hp's or 46grs. 4350/nosler75gr zip.using ww8 1 1/2 -120 primers, and neck sized brass.
My Handi youth mod. 243 with the superlite bbl. shoots factory federal OK. The 80gr. bullet shoots about 4 inches with Old Eyes and iron sights, that was the first time shooting it and I fell in love with it, it's very Handi and light weight, fun to use. I may not even scope it.
HM

watkibe · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:00:39 PM »

I tried BB's firing a primer-only test, and the fired primer didn't back out at all. I check OAL by seating the 100 gr PH long and trying to seat it by finger (until I could push in the ejector) and kept seating it deeper until it went all the way by finger pressure only; then I screwed in the bullet seating stem another half turn and measured and kept that length. I did smoke a bullet too, no mark of rifling when it chambered.
If I decide to hunt deer with it, there are plenty of deer bullets in 85-90 gr range. I may give up on the 100 grainer, or not. I'll see. The 58 gr Vmax is the only one that has had mild primers, that is, still with the radius present on the circumference.
Thanks again for all the good advice and input. I'm gonna print this thread and take it out to the shop so I dont forget it !

moorepower · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2012, 04:48:34 AM »

I think you are missing my point. You NEVER want to run a lighter load of H4350, or you can experiance detonation, which is what is happening to you. Load a few up closer mid to max and try it. A book max load will not hurt your rifle. I use RL19 and H414 in my .243 Remington 788. I have not shot the N.E.F. SS 243 yet, so I can't tell you what it likes.

watkibe · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:24:07 PM »

All it took to get rid of the pressure signs on the primers and the difficulty in opening the action was switching to Remington brass from the WW I had been using.

Dave Pitcher · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2012, 11:59:42 PM »

I've never had any experience with a .243 Handi but I have in a bolt gun--since 1962. I still have that rifle and it will still shoot 3/4" groups with loads of 43.5 gr. of IMR 4350 and a 75 gr. Sierra HP. I've watched a lot of these posts re: the .243 and have to wonder if it's something related to Handis-but what that might be, I surely don't know.

It's based on the .308 case as are several other successful cartridges.

What about the 7mm/08 in a Handi? Do those of you who have one have the same probelms as others do with a .243?

Scratching my head here......

ratdog · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2012, 10:37:15 AM »

the 243 is capable of great accuracy mine will shoot 3/4 to one inch groups at 100 yards 87 hp bt's its a mod 70 winchester.traded my o6 for it 30 years ago never regretted it.it has to be a bad barrel had a problem with the 357 sent it back to remmy they sent me one that shoot like it should.remmy should have the problem solved by now you would think.or get some barrels from a different manufacturer.