The pinnacle of performance from the Handi-Rifle?

[jkpq45]

Fun Debate Time!
Three categories on which to express your opinion about "the best" we can do with our Handi-Rifles (SB-2 shotguns or rifles):

1.  PROJECTILE SPEED (are there any cartridges, wildcat or otherwise, for which the Handi-Rifle is chambered that break the 4500+ fps "barrier"?) 
     a.  204 Ruger
     b.  220 Swift

2.  PROJECTILE MASS (are there any cartridges, wildcat or otherwise, for which the Handi-Rifle is chambered that break the ~600 grain "barrier"?)  Possible candidates include 10ga slug, 12 ga slug, 499HE, etc.
     a.  499 Hubel Express/500 S&W Magnum

3.  MUZZLE ENERGY (are there any cartridges, wildcat or otherwise, for which the Handi-Rifle is chambered that break the 6500+ LB/FT "barrier"?)  Possible candidates, again, include 10ga slug, 12 ga slug, 499HE, etc.
     a.  499 Hubel Express
     b.  45-120/110, etc.

Flame on!
jkpq45

[quickdtoo]

The 220 Swift is a possibility, there are some members here with 220 Swift Handis, the 500S&W works with 700gr loads, I've shot Ranger Rick's 700gr cast bullets(he no longer makes bullets tho) in mine.

Energy is an easy formula to calculate, seems to me some of the 45-120 fellas have pushed 405gr bullets pretty fast in the 32" Buffalo Classic, around 2650fps gets there, whether it can be done at a safe pressure is the big question, a more important question is whether it's needed and what for. 

Tim

I ran some numbers in QL software, a 500gr bullet at 2350fps in the BC will get 6130lbs energy, but at 50kpsi which is a max Ruger level load, it's also 88lbs of recoil in a 8½lb rifle, that's somewhere between a 458 Lott and 460 Wby in recoil.

http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[bikerbeans]

Ty's 405 @ 2,550 is the hotest 45-120 load I have seen and it only makes about 5850 lbs.  I've got up to 5,400 lbs with a 350 grain Hornday and that was more than enough for me  .
 
IIRC, The 700 grain Ranger Rick's that Ty shot out of his 45-120 did not stablize.
 
If you get an ammoguide account you can look up Ty's loads for the 45-120.
 
 

BB

[quickdtoo]

The Ranger Rick 720gr bullets that I sent Ty are undersize at .457", I think that's why they keyholed, the JBM stability calculator says they should work tho....if they were fatter that is, undersize bullets keyhole too.   

Tim

[bikerbeans]

The Ranger Rick 720gr bullets that I sent Ty are undersize at .457", I think that's why they keyholed, the JBM stability calculator says they should work tho....if they were fatter that is, undersize bullets keyhole too.   

Tim

Keyholing jacketed bullets?!?!  Way ahead of me I can only generate targets like that with lead boolits.
 
BB

[Smokin Joe]

To me, this is the pinnacle of performance

[geartow]

While the 50bmg exceeds your energy level the question is besides "just because" what purpose would a said round have ?

[josiah712]

4500 fps is gettin it on.  The 22-250 with 35 grainers can get pretty close.  But the only factory chamberings that I know of that can actually make it with readily available bullets would be the 17 Remington with 20 grainers, and the 220 Swift with 35s.  But these are not H&R offerings.  If they did make a 17 Remington, I would be interested.
 
600 grain bullets are no problem.  The 45-70 and 500 S&W can do this.  12 guage, also no problem.  The Lyman 12g slug is a 585 and easily goes over 600 with softer alloys.
 
6500 FPE is some serious muscle, I don't see anything that even comes close.  And frankly, I don't think the Handi action (or my shoulder) is up to it.

[quickdtoo]

The Ranger Rick 720gr bullets that I sent Ty are undersize at .457", I think that's why they keyholed, the JBM stability calculator says they should work tho....if they were fatter that is, undersize bullets keyhole too.   

Tim

Keyholing jacketed bullets?!?!  Way ahead of me I can only generate targets like that with lead boolits.
 
BB

The same day .380" cast bullets did the same thing, only one of three even hit the target, at least the jacketed bullets were ""accurate"" enough to hit the paper!!

Tim

[quickdtoo]

4500 fps is gettin it on.  The 22-250 with 35 grainers can get pretty close.  But the only factory chamberings that I know of that can actually make it with readily available bullets would be the 17 Remington with 20 grainers, and the 220 Swift with 35s.  But these are not H&R offerings.  If they did make a 17 Remington, I would be interested.
 

A full case of Benchmark under a 30gr Berger will do close to 4700fps from a 24" barrel. 

H&R doesn't offer a 17 Rem, but several members have made them from .17hmr or .17M2 barrels on SB2 frames.

Tim

[LONGTOM]

To me, this is the pinnacle of performance

I have gotten this degree of accuracy a few times with different Handi rifle chamberings.
Two of them are with the 204 32gr V-Max ammo from both a 22" and a 24" barrel.
I have a standard 22" 45-70 that has done three shot cutting with Win 300gr JHPs at 100.
I also have a 22" 223 that has done this on a good day with Ultramax 52gr BTHP ammo at 100.
Have had a few others come very close to three cutting but not quite.
One being my 7x57mm with Rem 140gr Core-Lokts.
Two cut and one touching but not quite a cut out.
 
 
LONGTOM

[twoshooter]

That would be wonderful if they had any relationship to "pinnacle of performance". This is like saying  "Which truck has the biggest tires? Which can you pile the most junk on? Which could travel the fastest?" I would think of "performance" as being accuracy,   the efficiency- speed or energy produced per weight or cost of powder/ primer, and applicability to needed purpose or task. It will tell you the biggest/ most though.

[jeepmann1948]

To me the pinnacle of performance from the Handi-Rifle would be the smile on the shooter's face when the target/ game is hit in the correct place!

[jkpq45]

Interesting.

If your argument is "use the right tool for the job," yes a 30-06 is plenty to do any animal on the north american continent quite nicely.

But, what if you want it "killed, skinned an butchered for you" with one pull of the trigger?

Most of my rifle work is done firing at paper, so I like seeing accuracy.  But, it's also fun to get results off the chronograph and see just how much meat you could've ruined had it been a deer... or a cape buffalo.

So, the real answer for the question "why?" really is "just because."

[jeff686]

For me, the pinnacle of performance is:

Puft.......   wait for it......   ting.... 

<insert beavis/buthead giggle>


Shooting steel gong at 200yrds with 180gr subsonic silenced 357 Mag Handi.

Still searching for a jacketed 200+ gr subsonic projectile.

[josiah712]

Roger that. 
 
I love busting steel with big lead and a long delay.  I know it would be twice as fun if I too, could do it with a silencer.