Author Topic: Cant make up my mind- Next rifle (Read 1132 times)

Jinx · « **on:** November 06, 2012, 01:19:43 AM »

I cant make up my mind. I have been wanting a new truck/deer/all around rifle and cash is too tight for multiple buys. I have owned a bunch of HR's but all of them have been shotguns, never fired a rifle HR. I am comfortable with bolt and gas rifles and ranges greater than 500 yards, I have not heard of handi's being that accurate at greater ranges but there really isn't a need for that level of accuracy for this rifle. I am also quite familiar with 308, but I will be plinking with it and 30cal is a little over-kill for tin cans (and wallets).

So here is the question...
For the $$, should I go for a handi or a savage? If I get a bolt it will be 308, but what about the handi?

redleg11b · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2012, 01:38:37 AM »

I have a Handi .223 that hits a life size turkey at 500 yards without a problem. Sourdough has a .30-06 that is very accurate. For occasional use on deer, the .223 will work (properly loaded) and is cheaper to plink with than the .30 cals. You could also order up a 30-30 which is cheaper to buy ammo for than .308. For the price of a Handi, you could get the Savage Axis, but the Handi is a great gun. I understand a tight budget, and for my money right now I am looking for a Handi. I will probably get a .357 if I can find a good used one (wish me luck). It is a great round, if money gets tight it is a caliber in demand for Max or other rechambers, and is still adequate for deer and any game smaller than that. For a truck gun, I think it is just about perfect. If you want something to reach out there it may not be the best choice, but for simple utility it is great. Ammo isn't all that bad either.

hoytcanon · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2012, 01:41:40 AM »

If you are looking for a kick-around do-it-all type of rifle... Then avoid the low-end bolt actions... As good as the Savage Axis is at that price point it is still MUCH more fragile than the H&R single break action. I think you should get a H&R in .223... The current production are 1:9 twist barrels and can stabilize heavier bullets... A 70 grain bullet is potent on deer. Ammo is very inexpensive for centerfire and there are plenty of load options... If you reload your cost per round will be lower than with any other centerfire caliber... Brass and bullets are everywhere. If the gun will see rough treatment (bouncing around in your truck)... Then consider Ghost Ring sights rather than a scope... Skinner and Nodak Spud make good peep designs. Good luck.

ncloader88 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2012, 02:41:52 AM »

The 223 is an excellent choice, but you may want to check your local laws before using it for deer. Even though it will get the job done, some states restrict the use of small calibers $:-\$ I have considered getting a 223 myself and trying the chamber insert that allows you to fire 22lr rounds http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

What range do you expect to be shooting? If you don't need more than need more than 100 yrds I would suggest 357 or 44mag. Cheap ammo and great for plinking. You can cut the cost on these by casting your own bullets

Jinx · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2012, 02:45:41 AM »

It is illegal to hunt deer with 22cal in Texas, so I am kinda avoiding 223. I am not that familiar with the cal's between 223 and 308 (or 30-06), but I am willing to learn.

Are the rifle chamberings just as tough and reliable as the shotguns?

(edit) I would prefer to stay away from the "pistol" cal's, I plan to add a barrel to the rifle (or one of my toppers if possible).

jim36 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:28:58 AM »

Jinx
Start off with an H&R 45 70. (a piece of history)
Then as funding improves, get that 223. Both of these are excellent shooters.
You are headed into a world of wants and desires when you get the Handi.
Some folks claim that the accuracy is not too good. I have found this to be incorrect.
These rifles will shoot better than I can.
Read the FAQS and study them. Lots of info there.
Good shooting to you.
Jim <")))><

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:03:29 AM »

Go standard barrel which ever caliber you decide. The bulls and anything over 22" don't balance right for carry, they are bench only for me.

redleg11b · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:18:03 AM »

If the 22 CF and pistol calibers are out of the question, I'd go for the 30-30. If I can't get a 357, it is my next choice for economical utility gun. My reasons may be different than yours, but it recoils light enough that my wife could comfortably use it if needed, the ammo isn't expensive (often on sale for about $10/20 vs. $14/20 with .308), and is a rimmed cartridge (which some seem to have better luck with in the Handi's. The 30-30 can still give a PBR of over 200 yards as well. Now you have me contemplating which should actually be my next one $:-\$

44 Man · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:27:18 AM »

I'm thinking you may not reload since you are concerned with ammo cost. That would be my first choice; get into reloading and get your cost of shooting down. That said, and of the centerfire Handi's will do the job for you. .308 military ammo is less expensive but not as cheap as .223. But Wallyworld can provide you with less expensive ammo in the popular calibers; .308, 30-30, .357 and .243. That said, since you have mentioned about shooting at long ranges, you may not be happy with something like a 30-30 or .357. If I were in your situation, I'd go for a .243 Youth model. A little shorter for the truck, synthetic stock is also lighter, and the .243 is a good deer cartridge and long range varmit round. You can put a decent scope on it that will take the knocks of truck life and still perform well. At any choice, I'm sure you will be very pleased with a Handi. 44 Man

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:47:39 AM »

I'd go, or I should say, have gone, with the .357 reamed to Maximum. My wife and I have two, one the same for each of us. Ours are cut to 16.5 inches for quick handling. They're good for everything from sub-sonic .38's for plinking to .35 Remington performance for hunting. They're cheap to shoot and easy to load for.

Pete

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:55:38 AM »

I think you may have misread the Texas game laws. We are allowed to use ANY centerfire round on deer, even .223 and smaller if you were so inclined. Now what it does forbid is the use of ANY RIMFIRE rounds, regardless of if we're talking about .22 S/L/LR/MAG or a .44 Henry or even bigger if you can find the ammo. I personally don't like the idea of using .223 on deer, but that is more a reflection on a couple of the "hunters" I had to help track and finish their deer for them than the round itself. As the above posters said, limit the range and put it where it belongs and it will work just fine.

Jinx · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2012, 06:16:24 AM »

I hate to start an argument on my first full posting day but....

Me and a buddy were out hunting and he ended up with a extensive and expensive lesson in 223 for deer in Texas. If a game warden and a judge take your guns, game, and money... It is illegal regardless what the law says. I have a 223, it aint for game and I really dont care for another, not a cal I care for... and I agree, not that great for deer IMO.

Reloading is great, I just dont have the room to set it up, safe place to store powder nor the cash to buy in bulk to make it worth while. Last time I played with my Lee I only saved maybe 15 to 20% over wally world. Right now it is easier to buy a box of ammo for 20$ vs 30/40$ for just the projectiles.

45-70 is one of my fav cal's, but not for this particular set up. I am kinda thinking 243, 270, or 308, 30-06. I have never played with 243 or 270 but they would be cheaper on ammo and easier on the shoulder. I am used to recoil, but less recoil is always better when plinking.

I like the idea of 357 max but I have not seen much ammo around here. What kind of range accuracy can you expect from 357 max (in general, assuming the best conditions)? I would prefer the ability to reach out past 200 yards but I may need to rethink my intended range, I just prefer long shots.

tomtomz · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2012, 07:00:55 AM »

Accuracy is not an issue. My H&R rifles shoot very accurately.

If I can figure out how to position the front shooter's rest under the barrel break, I should be able to match some of my nicer rifles which group well at 300Y and farther on paper.

My 22-250 H&R (24" bbl) has dropped coyotes at every range that they present themselves. My longest shot was a kill at ~ 500Y.

My 30-378 Weatherby can make that shot, but it is never with me when the shot presents itself. A Handi-Rifle can be a constant companion for you, and you won't be out a lot if it is stolen from the truck, etc.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2012, 07:34:42 AM »

If you reload, it is hard to beat a 357 Maximum. It is a for real deer cartridge out to 200 yards or so and you can use 38 specials for plinking and small game. If you do not reload, the 44 Magnum is a good choice. It will take deer out to 125 yards or so with authority and you can buy 44 Specials for plinking and small game. I own both and like them both very much. I also have a 30-30 and would really be great for your application if you can get smaller bullets for plinking and small game. I reload mine and the 110 grain Vmax works great for varmints and such.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

Brian P. · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2012, 08:00:32 AM »

Circuit Judge in 44mag

Sourdough · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2012, 08:29:33 AM »

I carry several different caliber Handis. First having a barrel added to your Topper, you should not use SB-1 frames for Rifle Cartridges. Factory won't fit one for you.

In Texas I usually carry a 25-06 or my 30-06. I can reach out there to 700 yards with either gun, but bullet performance is lacking beyond 500 yards. Depends on what I am shooting. Coyotes, I"ll take the 700 yard shot. Hogs and Deer no, I'll limit shots to under 300 yards for both, unless it is an almost perfect broadside shot. If I get the right shot and I feel confident I might take a shot out to 500 yards at Deer. Not Hogs, I prefer to only shoot hogs out to no more than 400 yards.

I shoot mostly Handis, but I also have Savage 110s in both calibers as well. Does not matter either gun will do the job and reach out there like I want it to. H&R and Savage are both very underrated guns.

I'll be in Texas in February, killing Hogs and Coyotes.

My next rifle will be a .17 Hornet. Either a Savage or a Ruger. Then I will be looking for a .17 Remington and an M-1 Garand. I want to start shooting the CMP shoots.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »

Back in the day i had one rifle a 3006 . I shot every thing from 220 gr bullets (They were on sale )to 55 gr accelerators. I settled on 150's for deer and 125's for varmits . I would think a 308 would work as well .

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:10:14 AM »

Jinx,
Not an argument at all, just sharing experiences as far as I'm concerned, and I appreciate it. This is something I checked with my local game warden actually because I was curious/confused when I first read the regs and was told about some around here using .223s. I was told he considers it kind of an experts gun like a .410 for dove hunting, but that going by the letter of the law, it IS legal, even if he personally disagrees with it. I figure this just shows the common issue of how each individual officer interprets the law. I have always worked with officers who in general had the theory that if it isn't expressly forbidden, then it is allowed, but know that some officers in some places have a very different opinion. I guess thats where our differing experience stems from. Thank you for the head's up that some places in TX this is enforced as being forbidden. I usually use a .30-30 for my small deer gun, and go up in caliber size from there, but can't say it's never crossed my mind to try it some day. Thanks for possibly saving me some grief.

tacklebury · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:15:45 AM »

If you want some real fun, get some unique powder and .310 round balls or light 100 gr. RNFP bullets and plink away. About the same cost as pistol loads and if you use the .310 round balls from Hornady, I think it's like 9 bucks for 100.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:26:10 AM »

Quote from: Jinx on November 06, 2012, 02:45:41 AM

It is illegal to hunt deer with 22cal in Texas, so I am kinda avoiding 223. I am not that familiar with the cal's between 223 and 308 (or 30-06), but I am willing to learn.

Are the rifle chamberings just as tough and reliable as the shotguns?

(edit) I would prefer to stay away from the "pistol" cal's, I plan to add a barrel to the rifle (or one of my toppers if possible).

According to this site:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/fish_hunt/hunt/means/
Any centerfire cartridge in a legal firearm is legal to hunt deer in the state of Texas
There is no telling how many deer are hunted and killed with 223,222,22-250,22 hornet etc. There is even a wildcat named the 22TTH (22 Texas Trophy Hunter)
Its even legal to drive on private property and shoot them from the vehicle

hoytcanon · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2012, 02:18:06 PM »

This business of individual officers "interpreting" game laws is beyond me?

Either it IS or IS NOT legal... and the FACT of this must be upheld if the matter ever comes before a judge.... if it is legal to hunt with .22 centerfires and an officer obstructs you in the process of exercising your rights, that is actionable and as an officer of the state, the state is liable. If you just don`t WANT a .223, then consider a .243... the recoil is relatively light, it IS a long range caliber, and it IS potent for deer. .243 bullets range from 50-105 grains and ammunition is generally available everywhere (even your preferred Wally World). As far as .270 and .30/06 being light recoil caliber`s, that has not been my experience... better to stick with the short action .308 tribe, if recoil is your concern.

FPH · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2012, 02:30:07 PM »

I'll probably go with a .204 has my next rifle. However, I have most all of the .30 calibers. I would say .308 for an all round caliber. I am a bolt guy. I actually could not find a Handi at my local Wal Mart the other night......I was curios.......I still have not held one. I've been lucky, I've found most of my bolt guns at pawn shops for very little money, and have been able to tune them into tack drivers.

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2012, 03:39:23 PM »

Consider a 7mm-08. You have range, power and very moderate recoil. Not much you can't do with it.

fullup3 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:45:05 PM »

Hard to go wrong with the 7mm-08. Also read about and consider the .243. A fantastic round!

Jinx · « **Reply #24 on:** November 07, 2012, 03:42:23 AM »

Thanks to everyone for their input. I think I have narrowed it down to the 243 or 308, might not decide till I lay my $$ down. I do like the idea of 357max once I get the room to reload again, might just add a barrel in the future.

Now I gotta do some homework on rugged optics... Not sure if I want to put a scope on it due to it living in the truck.

As for the legal issue...
Here in Texas, a cop only gets 6 weeks of training and most of it is traffic code. Game wardens and DPS have a "boot camp" that is a little longer and includes more training on the general law. Compair that to the 4+ years it takes to be a lawyer and you end up with poorly trained people that enforce the law and highly trained people to argue about the mess thats left. Not all cops are bad, but some would be more suited flipping burgers.

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2012, 05:39:56 AM »

Jinx,
If you went through a 6 week training course and became a Texas Peace Officer upon graduation, please list the year if you could. Your reference to the training time and content is absolutely false by current, or even recent standards. I don't know where you got your information, but I am speaking from experience here as I am a Texas Peace Officer, and graduated the academy in 2008. At that time, it was just shy of 6 months, not 6 weeks, and the material covered went well beyond just traffic law. DPS and Game Warden training is more boot camp style, so you are correct there, but I can't comment on theirs too much as I haven't gone through it. Your officers are better trained than you think. I will give you that some shouldn't be in the field they're in, and those of us who do the job right do our best to weed out the bad ones. But you get the same thing in any job, which is why all of us, regardless of job, should do our best to keep the good and get rid of the bad apples. I have personally seen several bad ones get thrown out of the job field because they refused to do the job as it should be done.

Having said that, like the post a couple above this one said, TX law allows any centerfire cartridge. Even if your local warden did cite you, I say take it to court and let the judge decide, and once you show him the law, he has no choice but to side with you as you are following the letter of the law. Yes, it is a hassle, but it is a worthwhile one if you were to experience something like you mentioned with the Warden preventing you from hunting with your .223 rifle. What I was saying above is that I have seen different officers interpret the same law several ways, depending on the situation, but you only have so much leeway before you go from interpreting it, to spewing trash and getting yourself in some hot water. Now if you were doing something else that is unlawful and he saw the bore and checked to make sure it was a centerfire instead of a rimfire to see what all else you're up to, then I can see him asking about it. Not accusing, just saying it's a possibility since they have to be thorough to do their jobs right.

Jinx · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:52:10 AM »

You are correct in your assumption, I have not had any law enforcement training, I was a fire fighter/medic instead. McLennan Community College had a program that was 8 weeks long... I mis-spoke when I said 6 weeks, that was around the late 1990's, my wife was in that class. That program is now 20 weeks long, just called my cousin to verify... he graduated around a year ago. 20 weeks for a cert vs 4 years for a bachelors... just seems messed up to me.

The 223 issue... I didn't get "in trouble" with the warden. We were in an area that poachers were know to frequent (per the warden), he asked who shot the deer and billy said he did (it was the truth)... that's when he asked to see papers. Keep in mind that this warden was not being polite and was looking for any reason to write us up, atleast that is the way it seemed. We had all appropriate papers and a phone call had the land owner there in just a few minutes... everything checked out. He then picked up billy's cz 223 and smiled while telling us ANY (he stressed the word several times) 22cal is illegal. Not only did he take the deer and the cz, he took my rem 30-06 and the property owners rifle (dont know what it was) that was on his 4 wheeler.

Long story short... I and the owner got our guns back with no answers, billy hired a lawyer to no avail and got hit with a fine and lost his rifle. I think it was sommerville county, but I honestly dont remember. This happened around 2001... maybe 02. I used to volunteer with a search and rescue unit that had a few DPS troopers in it, didn't make sense to them either.

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2012, 10:00:07 AM »

Sorry you had to go through that hassle. I still dont see how the Warden managed to get the judge to go along with him when the regs are written in black and white and very simple to understand, and clearly state that any centerfire is legal, which includes .223 Rem. Gonna have to remember to stay out of Somerville county.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 07, 2012, 10:13:11 AM »

If that happened to me I would be in contact with the Texas Attorney General's office. That is a large lot of Bovine Feces!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2012, 10:24:48 AM »

357 mag num........max if you reload

22 is the only thing cheaper than a 38spl......[my favorite in my max]

30-30.....but they dont come scope reaty

308

AND CAST THEM