Author Topic: 30-30 barrel questions (Read 1518 times)

Darrell H · « **on:** December 17, 2003, 12:29:15 PM »

Hello folks,

I have been playing with my new 14" full bull barrel in 30-30 Win lately. I am getting very good accuracy, but I'm having a hard time getting anywhere close to published velocities with 125 or 150 grain bullets. Also, my extreme spreads are awful with some powders.

My best results seem to be with IMR 3031 and W760 and 150 grain bullets. I'm just barely breaking the 2000 fps barrier. If I switch to 125 grain bullets, there doesn't seem to be any increase in velocity :? :?:

What kinds of experiences have you had with a 30-30?
Are the extreme spreads that I am getting with my barrel normal?
I placed an order for a 10" .30 Herrett today, so I am even considering rechambering this barrel in order to get a little more velocity to something like a 30-30 improved or .309 JDJ. Are either of these cartridges generally more accurate than the plain ol' 30-30???

Thanks in advance for any help.

X

KYODE · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2003, 04:09:11 PM »

might try some imr4198 with those 125-130gr bullets. 30.0gr listed max gives around 2350fps in forming cases for my 14" 30-30AI. i like imr4198.

Darrell H · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2003, 05:13:14 PM »

Thanks for your reply Kyode. I did try some IMR4198 (per your advice on AR I believe!!) Accuracy with the 125's was consistently in the 1 1\2" to 1 3\4" range and velocity was under 2000 fps. I'm getting the same velocity readings and MOA accuracy with IMR3031 and 150 grain bullets. My best combination so far has been 34 grains W760 with 150 grain Sierra match bullets for consistent 1\2" to 3\4" accuracy, but only about 1850 fps. Still looking for a good accurate hunting load.

Thanks again!!

X

KYODE · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:17:03 AM »

sorry i couldn't be more help. wonder why you only got 2000fps, or less as you stated with imr4198? :?
i've had good luck with it, and sierra lists it as their accuracy load, if i remember correctly. proof that every barrel is different. if you find something that works, spill the beans.

i have a buddy that used AA2230 with success.
a seating depth change could also help find a accurate load. as a matter of fact, a 30-30 improved load i tried, started producing excellent accuracy, with only .005-.010"(i forget now) change in oal.
good luck.

Crayfish · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2003, 03:54:07 AM »

I've been using W748 exclusively with 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. I'm not using a max load and getting an even 2100fps (same as PMC factory ammo in 150gr, by the way). This handload produces sub-MOA results consistently with my Super-14 30-30. The extreme spreads amazed me ... in the single digits in some instances!!

I've only played with AA2230 with 130gr Hornady's, so don't have a lot of experience here. The velocities were not quite what I expected, but again were in the 2100fps range. Very low extreme spreads again.

I would suggest you try some factory ammo over the chronograph to see what you get there. Like I said above, factory 150gr PMC's gave me 2100fps. If factorys in your barrel are in the 2000fps range than you just have a slow barrel. It happens! If they are in the 2100fps range, then you probably need to try some different powders in your reloads. W760 is an awfully slow powder for a 30-30, especially in a short barrel. Try W748.

Good luck! ... Crayfish

MS Hitman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2003, 05:14:32 AM »

You may want to try AA2520 somewhere in the 31.0 to 35.0 grain range according to the Speer manual for their 130 grain bullet. The AA manual gives 33.3 to 37.0 for the same bullet. AA 2700 is showing some very respectable velocities for the range of bullet weights.

The other thing to consider is that you may just have a "slow" barrel. All firearms and barrels are a law unto itself. From what you have said, the barrel seems accurate enough.

Darrell H · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2003, 06:59:01 AM »

Crayfish:

Could you elaborate on your load with W748 a little more? What kind/brand of primers, overall length, brand cases, powder charge? I meant to say that my most accurate load was 34 grains W748 and 150 grain Sierras not W760. :oops:

I have not tried W760 in the 30-30 :roll:

Thanks,

X

Bob C · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2003, 04:07:26 PM »

26.0 grains of IMR 4198 averaged 2117 fps with a 125 grain bullet in my 14" 30/30.

The deviations were pretty bad, however. Groups were around 2 MOA. My next efforts with this powder will be with increased charges and hopefully I'll get more consistent velocities.

I also plan to try RE-7.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2003, 02:35:51 AM »

Many years ago, Loadbooks USA published a book of loading data for Contenders. I went back to look up loads for the 150 grain weight class and just a few loads were showing velocities over 2000 fps.

Sierra used max. charges of 35.2 of BL-C(2); 28.1 of IMR-4198 and 33.4 of AA2460 to achieve 2100 fps.

Nosler data showed their max. velocities never exceeded the mid 1900 fps using IMR 4198, 3031, 4895, 4320 & AA2460. WW748 turned in the slowest velocity from their data; did not break 1900 fps.

Hornady data does not show a velocity greater than 1900 fps for 150 grain weight bullets.

Speer data shows velocities exceeding 2100 fps with their 150 grain weight bullets using WW748, H322, & Re7. Velocities greater than 2000 fps were obtained with Re12, Viht N140 AA2520, and H335.

Lyman's 46th edition reloading manual had one load over 2000 fps using a max charge of WW748 (38.5) and the Hornady #3031 bullet.

This is not an exhaustive search of all loading data, but enough to tell me you are certainly in the ball park with the velocities you obtaining with your barrel.

Now, as far as rechambering your barrel to a .309 JDJ; my .309 started out as a .30 Herrett Super 14. I can load Speer 165 grain GS to exceed 2400 fps. My main load is the 150 Nosler BT loaded to 2350 fps. I've taken 47 whitetail with my .309 to date as well as several African species. I loaded the 165 grain Nosler BT for the lighter plains game. Took down a Red Hartebeest at 300 yards and a Blesbok at 200 yards. I am going to the Hornady #3033 for use on deer and smaller big game, even groundhogs. My fireform loads are 170 .30-30 bulets loaded to just under 2100 fps. These are accurate enough to shoot groundhogs out past 150 yards.

My friend, Larry Rogers first .309 JDJ barrel was a .30-30 Spuer 14. He was getting good accuracy, but not enough horsepower as he'd like. So it is a viable option.

Hope this helps

Crayfish · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2003, 02:58:52 AM »

x-caliber .... I've been using 35gr of W748 with the Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip for years. Went up to 36gr in my load development, but the 35gr load was more accurate ... it has produced groups as small as .6" at 100yds! I set my COL so that the bullet was .010" from the rifling. I don't have my load data with my right now, so can't quote what that is. Of course the long tip on the BT will make this COL unusable with any other bullet. Cases are primarily Winchester and I use CCI Mag Rifle primers.

My barrel wears a 2.5-7X TC scope, also, just for reference.

Watch out for the velocity data in the Loadbooks, USA book ... most of them are quoted for 10" barrels in the 30-30.

Good luck ... Crayfish

MS Hitman · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:45:03 AM »

Crayfish,

Good point on the barrel length. However, everything I quoted this morning with the exception of the Hornady data was listed under the 14" barrel length column.

Darrell H · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2003, 06:25:02 AM »

Thanks for the information guys. I guess the point that I'm trying to make and that I find surprising is this. By changing from 150 grain bullets to 125 bullets there is not a noticeable increase in velocity. I find that strange given the fact that I'm dropping a whole 25 grains of bullet weight.

I really appreciate the load data, it does indeed sound like I am getting reasonable velocity with the 150 grain bullets, but the 125's are not performing as they should in my opinion.

BTW, I have checked with Bullberry and they will rechamber to a 30-30 AI for $25.00 and have my barrel back to me in 3-4 weeks. That sounds like a viable option to get more velocity. What do you guys think? Is the 30-30 AI generally easier to work with than the plain ol' 30-30? Opinions please!!!

X

Geno · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2003, 10:22:31 AM »

while the cost of the barrel wasnt bad, seems to me that dies were rather pricey. only to gain about 200fps. I'm more than happy with my 30/30 performance, one of my favorite barrels. I think I'd make the leap up to the 309JDJ if the 30/30 wasnt cutting it. :-D

KYODE · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2003, 10:51:36 AM »

30-30AI dies can be had rather cheaply. around $25 for lee, and around $58 for redding.
don't know that it's any easier to work with, but it adds a little fun to the barrel. you'll gain some velocity also. it makes a great looking case too.
i get 2588fps with imr4198 and 130gr hornady ssp's. you can get 150's up to around 2400fps, or just under from a 14" barrel.
the 30-30AI will nearly equal the 309jdj in lightweight bullets(150gr and less), but use considerably less powder to get there. 30+ grains, compared to 50+ grains.

Darrell H · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2003, 11:26:10 AM »

Kyode:

Do you have a source for loading data for the 30-30 AI?

Thanks,

X

Major · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:03:51 PM »

Kyode, or anyone else for that matter.

I am new here so please forgive me if I ask dumb questions. I have a 10 30-30 barrel I have never fired. I bought it used for the scope it had on it. It had the open sites removed so now it has no sites or scope. My question is this; should I buy a 14 barrel for my Contender or get another scope or set of sites for my 10 barrel? I have never fired a 30-30 in a Contender so I do not know what to expect. I only have a 10" .22 Rimfire barrel that I use for rabbits and targets so I have never fired it with any of the big stuff. I had a .357 Colt SA once so I am not totally unprepared for some recoil but dont know what the 30-30 would feel like.

Also, if I were to go with the 14 barrel I think I would be interested in the 30-30 Ackley Improved. I was thinking about a 30-30 AI in a NEF single shot but why not use the Contender too or instead of the NEF.

Thanks for the insight and help.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:28:33 PM »

I shoot a 10" .30-30 barrel in shilouette competition. It would also make a very suitable deer gun with proper bullets.

You will get some recoil. Recoil is a subjective thing; some feel it worse than others. Using lighter bullets or downloading a bit in order to get acclimated to the recoil is a good option if you reload.

Major · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:40:08 PM »

MS Hitman,

Thanks for the reply. Maybe I should just get some ammo and go fire off a few rounds (without the sites) just to see what it is like. If it is something I can handle then I can put a scope back on it. If it kicks too hard I would then know to go with a longer (heavier) barrel or go to a rifle.

KYODE · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2003, 03:21:21 PM »

i've never fired the 30-30 in a 10" barrel, but i have put hundreds of rounds thru a 14"er and of course the improved version in 14". i can't imagine it being too bad. the 30-30, or the 30-30AI in 14" barrels is very tolerable in recoil.
good idea major, i was about to say that you could just pop some factory loads out of that barrel to test the recoil. still, a scope would add a little weight to tame some recoil, but i doubt it would be that much less. :?

x-caliber, i have data from 4-5 different barrels tested by some good buddies, and myself. email me on that. just use the button below my posts.
all that anyone would need to do with a 30-30AI, is start with regular 30-30 data and work up carefully. you just gotta know when to stop going up. above all, be careful. :agree:

myronman3 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:32:39 PM »

major- dont be afraid of the barrel. DO use hearing protection; dont be afraid to double up (plugs and muffs). if you shoot it and recoil seems more than you are up for; dont panic. get a set of pachmyer grips- they really make quite a difference.
x caliber- i had the same deal this last year with my 270. long story short, i switched primer brands, and wouldnt you know it that was my problem. different powder/primer combos make a world of difference in different guns. what works well in one, may not in another. the 30-30 has never been a barn burner- and it doesnt need to be. i understand the desire to get the utmost in preformance from a caliber; but dont try to get a 30-30 barrel to preform like a 308 barrel. one last thing; if your barrel is cleaned after every few shots you will likely get a bit better velocity. good luck in your endeavors.

palgeno · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2003, 02:49:15 AM »

I sold my 10" 30-30 barrel and got a 15" .308 for my Encore frame---almost a good move-----wanted more range with heavier bullets and got that and great accuracy too. :grin: The bad part is that I miss that 30-30 on the Contender

----really sweet shooting with 125 gr Nosler ballistic tips---keep that barrel ----and just as already suggested, let it be what it is---don't try to max it out and you will love it and still be ready for nearly anything below 250 lbs. pg

Moe · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2003, 03:12:43 AM »

X-Caliber: You could also go with a 30GNR. This is from Gary Reeder in Flagstaff. Its an improved 30-30 AI. His website has info. Dies are kind of pricey.