6.8 or 7-30?

[TeamTurpin]

Hello.  This is my first time to post here, but I've been lurking a while.

I'm working with Ed (of Ed's Contenders) on my first Contender purchase (pistol, not rifle).  I'll be using it to hunt whitetails, hogs and mid-sized exotics here in Oklahoma.  I'm looking at two chamberings:  6.8 Rem and 7-30 Waters.  Ultimately, I'll start exploring other calibers and wildcats, but for now, it's probably between those two choices.  I don't currently reload, but a neighbor across the street does.  So, I plan to buy factory ammo, but can reload if needed.

Assuming 100-200 yard shots on medium sized game, what would be your preference?  Ballistically, the 6.8 Rem Spc seems to have the advantage in velocity and energy.  Thoughts?

Thanks in advance


John
Guthrie, OK

[Mike Scott]

There is not enough difference between the two to say one is better.  I would pick the 7-30 because it is a rimmed case.  There is only one factory ammo load available.  The 6.8 has a lot more factory ammo choices if that is important to you. 

[Flash]

Good call to be going with Ed's. I personally would choose the 7x30 too, mainly because im partial to rimmed cases. In the distance and for the animals you list, both would be fine. Go out to 300 yards and then the 6.8 would be the choice. Don't be surprised if the barrel is chanbered and crowned at MGM.  Mine was and Ed told me he ships blanks to MGM to process. Mine arrived in an MGM sock and their logo cut into the barrel........for half the price.

Forgot to mention that 30-30 brass is everywhere

[Da-Law-Dawg]

If you plan on reloading, I'd definitely go to the 7-30. It's probably one of THE most popular cartridges available for the 'Tender. I run a factory Super 14 in the Waters and it's a laser and one of my most accurate barrels.

I wouldn't say that the 6.8 has any advantage over the Waters, save for factory ammo. The Waters will surprise you with a good load downrange, I commonly practice at extended ranges and the 7-30, again will surprise you. Given you have access to reloading equipment, go with the Waters. It's an easy cartridge to load for and 30/30 brass is cheaper than 6.8 fodder. On a side note, my Waters is just as accurate with fireform loads as it is with formed brass. Just my two cents, FWIW.

[SHOOTALL]

I have shot both but not in a contender. Have shot the 7X30 in a contender though. A super 14. I think if it were me it would be the 7X30 because a rimmed cartrage works better in a break open action as far as getting positive ejection and head spaceing on rim ( yes the shoulder should be in the correct place no doubt but the rim is still less critical). It is less trouble when reloading for a break open action and you might find a heavier bullet in 7mm if you need one. Most factory ammo for the 6.8 is light in weight (as found on shelves for sale ). the 120 in 7X30 factory load has taken many deer for me over the years .
I have to ask , how many 300 yard shots will be taken with a handgun ?

[Flash]

I have to ask , how many 300 yard shots will be taken with a handgun ?

Depends on the terrain you hunt in. East coast states have extremely flat terrain and with either cartridge mentioned, it can be easily done if you know the trajectory of the bullet you're using and the load. How many? It could be common place if you shoot bean fields. Rifle shots can go out to 700 yards when you're in a stand 15' up. They don't even run, they just walk away confused when their buddy does a mule kick and dies.

[Da-Law-Dawg]

+1 on the above statement. The 7mm selection is, to me, better than the .277 offerings. I also load the heavies in my 7-30, I run a 162gr Amax, it's super accurate and hits like a sledgehammer!

[TeamTurpin]

Okay, gentlemen.  We have a winner.  The 7-30W is for me.

I'm very glad that I asked now.  In the reloading book and ballistics tables, the 6.8 looks like a winner over the 7.  But practical experience usually tells a different story.  Thanks, guys.

[Da-Law-Dawg]

You'll be well pleased with the Waters. Hammer of a round in the 'Tender and easy to load for. There's a ton of data available for it as well. Good luck my friend!

[SHOOTALL]

I have to ask , how many 300 yard shots will be taken with a handgun ?

Depends on the terrain you hunt in. East coast states have extremely flat terrain and with either cartridge mentioned, it can be easily done if you know the trajectory of the bullet you're using and the load. How many? It could be common place if you shoot bean fields. Rifle shots can go out to 700 yards when you're in a stand 15' up. They don't even run, they just walk away confused when their buddy does a mule kick and dies.

Flash not rifles but handguns. I have shot handguns out to 500 meters in competition sometimes aginst rifles and hitting is very possible but at 300 yards energy is starting to drop below what is needed for a clean kill . and shot placement is critical. I always get as close as possible to take a shot it adds to my hunting.

[TeamTurpin]

Quick follow-up.  I just spoke with Ed and he's matched up a G2 frame with a 7-30W barrel for me.  I pick it up at his shop on Monday.  Woo Hoo!

[Flash]

Hate ti hijack a thread but.........
 shootall, i understand about clean kills but 300 yards is still a deadly range for bottle necked handgun rounds. . I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that range with some of the larger straight walled cartridges either. The mathematical difference between rifle and handgun performance isn't as great as it seems. These locations im referring to are flat fields that can be 200 acres or larger, bordered by hedge rows wih another 200 yards beyond that.

[SHOOTALL]

Well to each their own , but at 300 yards a misjudgement of a few yards in distance or angle of the shot can ruin a shot . Hitting targets on a range at known distance is not the same as shooting game from a field position even if a range finder is used.

[Flash]

That's fine if you don't hunt in a location where you could shoot long distance but just because others do, doesn't make it wrong or impossible. Its kind of hard to get close in a 200 acre flat field so you do what you can with what you have. It works for us.

[SHOOTALL]

it has nothing to do with where I hunt it has more to do with humane hunting. I have no problem with it as long as the shooter can make the shot. not make it some of the time or most of the time but every time or have the sense to not try when they are not sure.
We hunt lots of big fields now and cut overs . but consider if you have a 200 yard field in both directions a short stalk would result in a 100 yard shot 

[Flash]

it has nothing to do with where I hunt it has more to do with humane hunting. I have no problem with it as long as the shooter can make the shot. not make it some of the time or most of the time but every time or have the sense to not try when they are not sure.
We hunt lots of big fields now and cut overs . but consider if you have a 200 yard field in both directions a short stalk would result in a 100 yard shot 

That's all well and good but the fields aren't 200 yards, they're 200 acres and about 1000 yards end to end. Don't you think that we practice long shots? What is inhumane about being able to harvest a deer at 300 yards? If its broadside, its down. There isn't anything to be unsure about. I think you're picturing someone perched in a ladder stand resting an Encore on a branch. We have enclosed stands with stair stringers, benches and firearm rests. Nothing inhumane, trust me.

[Keith L]

I think the point is we all have to know the limitations we have and that our gear has and live within them.  If you are confident in a 300 yard shot take it.  Not everyone is.

I don't have to worry about it.  My longest shot from my deer stand is 65 yards.  Easy with my 7-30 Waters.

[Cemo]

I have a 16-1/4" 7-30 Waters on a Contender pistol frame. I've taken it Prairie Dog hunting several times and could take them up to 200 yards or maybe a little more. It is great on deer using 120 gr. bullets. The cons are, or is, the case life is very short. Loaded at about 95% of max I experience typical case life of just 4-6 reloads. The 30-30 case tends to stretch about 1/2" from the head and gets really thin there. The ring is not visiable from the outside, you have to take a flashlight and inspect each case. If I were to get one today it would be in a 6.8. The performance of the 6.8 is very similar to the wonderful 7-30 but hopefully give longer case life.

[Flash]

Wow, last time i looked, a prairie dog was a little smaller than a white tail deer. Was it a humane kill?

[Da-Law-Dawg]

I think the point is we all have to know the limitations we have and that our gear has and live within them.  If you are confident in a 300 yard shot take it.  Not everyone is.

I don't have to worry about it.  My longest shot from my deer stand is 65 yards.  Easy with my 7-30 Waters.

Well stated Keith! I commonly shoot my handguns WAY farther than most people on a regular basis. I know the limitations of my gear and more importantly, myself.

[SHOOTALL]

it has nothing to do with where I hunt it has more to do with humane hunting. I have no problem with it as long as the shooter can make the shot. not make it some of the time or most of the time but every time or have the sense to not try when they are not sure.
We hunt lots of big fields now and cut overs . but consider if you have a 200 yard field in both directions a short stalk would result in a 100 yard shot 

That's all well and good but the fields aren't 200 yards, they're 200 acres and about 1000 yards end to end. Don't you think that we practice long shots? What is inhumane about being able to harvest a deer at 300 yards? If its broadside, its down. There isn't anything to be unsure about. I think you're picturing someone perched in a ladder stand resting an Encore on a branch. We have enclosed stands with stair stringers, benches and firearm rests. Nothing inhumane, trust me.

Flash nothing is wrong with taking a long shot you are 100% confident in making. There are few who go to the nessary lengths to do so. Yet feel if they can sit at a bench on a calm day and walk their shots onto a target a few hundred yards away then they can flop down on a less than calm day in a situation where yardage to the shot may be questionable at best  and think they can make the shot with a first shot out of a cold bbl.
 At one time I shot 3-5 times a week , at 300 yards the club had a 18 inch X 24 inch steel plate to shoot at. I could sit at a shooting bench and hit it most every time. I could almost do it everytine from the 500 yard like with a 44 mag. I had an aming point that worked. I had no illusion I could do the same on game in the field. Just Saying.

[TeamTurpin]

I spent  an hour or so with Ed this morning and came home with my new G2.  Ed's a very nice guy and I'd certainly recommend him if you're looking for hardware. 

So, first Contender purchase--check.  7-30W ported barrel--check.  Pachmayr grips--yep.  A little clicking on Amazon and I've got a new Burris 1.5X-4X scope headed this way, along with a set of Burris Zee rings--double check.  And, I sourced some factory Federal cartridges, so I may even have some ammo soon.

Yessir.  I may be visiting the range soon.

[jdfireman]

You will like your 7x30!  I too have a 14" with the factory " muzzle tamer ".   One thought......make sure you use hearing protection when you drop the hammer!  I shot mine once without protection ...(by accident)...thought my ears were going to bleed!  I use protection while deer hunting also......

[TeamTurpin]

Thanks, JDFireman.  I'd not really considered the noise this thing will make.  Once, I was alongside a friend's 7mm mag magnaported rifle and the sound moving sideways from that ported barrel was frightening.  The 7-30's muzzle brake may add some apparant noise.  I'll prepare for that.

I'm boresighting this weekend and will be spending some time on the local rifle range over the holiday break.  I'm also strategizing with my intrepid band of hunting misfits over an early Spring 2013 hog hunt.

BTW, a scoped, Pachmayr-gripped G2 is a deadly looking firearm.

[jdfireman]

You will also notice the muzzle blast from the 7x30 when the shock wave hits your face....lol


I have the same 14" Barrels with factory muzzle tamer in 45-70 and 44 mag ....I don't notice the concussion from those barrels like I do from the 7x30.... Have fun!

[deerman406]

If Ed has a 7-30 waters barrel that is new in but an older one from the early 90's or so get that!! The newer barrels made by T/C(smith and wesson) are some of the least accurate I have seen. Also as mentioned the rimmed case is great in a Contender as you will have less headspace issues as well!!  I just read your last post, was iy an older barrel? Shawn

[TeamTurpin]

It is a used factory barrel, Deerman, but Ed didn't know its history.  He probably took it in on trade.  I'm heading to the range later this week.  I'm using blunt-nosed Federal factory ammo, so I don't have high hopes for accuracy.  But, I'll reload those cases with Nosler 120 gr SPs and then start finding out how well it shoots.

[deerman406]

The factory ammo is very accurate, my barrel shoots the factory stuff under an inch at 100 yards and right around 2"s at 200 yards. My handload is a 120 grain Nosler BT in 120 grains and it shoots just a tad better, I shoot 37 grains of IMR 4064 and my COAL is 2.81"s. Even if you do handload the Federal Factory loads are very hard to be beat as far as accuracy. I feel confident in taking deer at 150 yards with them and better about my Noslers at 200 yards as I feel the Nosler bullet performs better at that distance(expansion and energy) wise. Shawn

[ratgunner]

6.8 SPC fan here. I love my bolt rifle in 6.8 but yes the 7-30 has it beat in ballistics.