New 223 Rifle- Accuracy after cleaning question

[je265]

I just bought a new (old stock) .223 Handi rifle with a 22" bbl. I cleaned it real well and went to the range today with all shooting done at 50 yards. It only took one shot to get me on a sight in target with the 1" boxes and I went to shooting groups to fine tune the scope. I read the faq's and paid special attention on how I closed the action and where I rested the forend on the front bag. Because I was the only one at the range I walked downrange after each shot to check my target and make sure I gave the rifle time to cool off. The temps were in the low 30's so this was probably overkill but I had the time and energy. On average my groups were well under 1" with many I was able to cover with a dime. I was shooting Federal factory 55 gr ammo and was very pleased with the accuracy.

After about 20 rounds I decided to clean the rifle and shoot another group. After I cleaned the rifle my first 3 round group opened up to about a 3" group and the point of impact was about 2 1/2" high. The second 3 round group tightened up a bit and ultimately after that my groups continued to shoot as well as they did earlier although I did tweak the scope a little bit because I ended up shooting about 1" high.

I just read about the tricks with jb paste etc... as well as the shoot one, clean repeat regimine which is obviously a little late as I put 35 rounds down range today. The obvious answer is to not clean the rifle and as long as the accuracy remains good I can just take it hunting. I always clean my rifles well after I shoot them so This would take some getting used to. I bought this rifle for a predator hunting gun with most shots well within 100 yards so I'm not looking for benchrest accuracy. I am wondering if this rifle has a rough bore and if I just continue to shoot it will it smooth out and hopefully shoot close to the same whether clean or dirty.

I can try some of the tricks to smooth out the bore but I have never done this before and would rather just shoot it in if that is an option. I'll continue to read the faq's and older posts to learn about this but thought someone with some knowledge might have been down this road before.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any input.
Jim

[Slowhanddd]

Most of my Handi's shoot better dirty.In fact,most of my guns shoot better with a dirty bore.I never clean my bores until the accuracy starts to fall off.When you get a couple of hundred rounds down it then I would clean it and start over.I never take a clean bore hunting.Slow

[trotterlg]

My guess is that some of the cleaning solution dripped down into the action and onto the latch shelf and latch.  Even having some on the breach will cause you problems.  I doubt the problem was caused directly by the cleaning, just from the splatter from it.  Larry

[je265]

Thanks for the fast replies. Having spent 3 yrs in the infantry I guess I got conditioned to clean my rifles because that was all we did when we weren't out in the field.

I didn't pay enough attention to whether any solvent got into the action when I cleaned it but will pay closer attention in the future.

I appreciate all the knowledge here on this site and didn't want anyone to think I was being lazy or looking for a quick fix. I'm willing to pay my dues with this rifle because I'm taking my 10 yr old son hunting alot. He has a Topper 410 as well as a Sportster in .22 lr and I want to show him that one well placed shot is all we need to focus on. As an aside I have an older Remington 700 ADL in .222 Rem that has been my primary predator rifle and I never noticed a significant difference in point of impact with a clean or dirty bore. I want to get the bugs worked out of this rifle so I can hand it over to my son for predator hunting in a couple of years as he is already familiar with the function of these firearms.

[murphdog]

Jim,
I would say you have a fairly typical handi.  My 223 does the very same thing.  When I first got it, it shot 8-inch groups, always strung out vertically with the first shot being the highest.  Took me a while to figure out that if I stopped cleaning the barrel, the groups would tighten up.  It came with a very rough bore, and I continued to get heavy copper fouling until I had put >200 rounds thru it along with a lot of bore paste.  Its now got 400 rounds and it doesn't copper foul so badly.  First few shots after cleaning still go high though.  This is what works for me.  After a thorough cleaning including copper removal (and usually a little bore paste), I take it out and shoot a 5-shot "group".  Shot 1 is several inches high and #2 is 1-2 inches high.  Shots 3-5 generally make a decent group, and I consider the gun ready to shoot with.  After shooting, I either put it away as is, or if its going to sit a while I run a single patch of Hoppes #9 to remove powder, a single dry patch, and a patch of CLP to keep it from rusting, but I make no effort to remove copper.  I continue like this until accuracy falls off (usually >50 rounds).  Then I give a thorough cleaning including Sweets and bore paste, take the 5 fouling shots, and I'm good to go again for a while.  This is just what has worked for me.  Enjoy your gun.  Once you learn how to make it work, a handi rifle can become addicting. 
Duane

[petemi]

Once you learn how to make it work, a handi rifle can become addicting. 
Duane

Huh???   I never noticed that.

As I posted on an earlier thread, I don't clean my Handis til I can't see down the bore or a bullet lodges in the barrel   (The lodged bullet maybe why I can't see down it)

Pete

[je265]

Just got back from the range after second trip with my new .223 rifle. I shot a total of 18 rounds, all without cleaning. All my groups were within 1 inch with my last two groups of 3 shots each were basically one ragged hole. Although this was only at the 60 yard range I am very pleased with this and will leave it as is for the predator season. In a good year I shoot a few coyotes and maybe a fox or two so my round count will be minimal. I'll probably clean it real good in the spring and spend some serious range time with it over the summer.

With any luck I'll be posting pics of some coyotes soon. Thanks again.
Jim

[s_hawk]

My .223 & 22 Hornet are like this. I've got where I only clean them after about a 100-200 rds and then get them back on. It took me awhile to get used to that, but IMO that's the best way instead of cleaning whenever you shoot.
Hawk

[STUMPJMPR]

Most of the time you will have a flyer on a freshly cleaned barrel.