RELOADING THE 500S&W MAG

[pruhdlr]

On another forum I have read that someone has used Fed 215 primers for a somewhat reduced load.
375gr / 12.0grs IMR Trail Boss / Fed215 / 1000fps

I have a bunch of these primers on hand and was wondering if I could use these for the "normal" loads in my 500 Handi ??  Of course I will reduce the load and work up.

Anyone tried this ?? Any potential problems ??  ----pruhdlr

[phatgemi]

Not familiar with using the Federal 215's. I reload for the 500 and my reduced load is the Missouri Bullet Co 400 grain cast over 10 grains of trail boss. I use the winchester LR primers. I do not have a chrono but estimate somewhere around 900 fps. A real lite load to shoot. Accuracy ok but not fantastic.

When loading for hunting, I use the 350 grain hornandy xtp over 42.5 grains of H110 again with the winchester LR primers. Quite a bit more of a punch.

I'm in Indiana with very restrictive rifle regs. Hard to decide between using the 500 or my 44 mag......decisions, decisions. good luck.

[pruhdlr]

I am looking for a practice/scope sight in/bbl brake in load. I will use the CCI200's for that. Will pick up a can of Trail Boss or another reduced load powder. I will also practice shooting off of a monopod. I usually carry one for pistol spot & stalk and have reciently started for close range rifle hunting.

You have some of the bigger deer in Indiana. To me, a real plus for the 500,even at some of the reduced velocities,is it cuts a half inch hole going in. This is why I am a big fan of the WFNGC's in some of the larger calibers. I have used these to great success in my 45-70,444Marlin,44mag,and 454Casull. I have put these thru and thru,Maine moose and black bear. I haven't found a deer yet that will stop 'em,even the 300lb(on the hoof)Maine whitetails.

Today I recieved my order from Cast Performance of the 370gr WFNGC's. Will give these a try as a somewhat reduced load,working up. As stated, I own a 45-70 Handi with a 18" bbl and a 13" LOP. I shoot full power loads outta that with no problems. I just can't go to the range and shoot 20+ rounds like I used to. ---pruhdlr

[phatgemi]

Yes, you do have a big point with the 1/2 inch path on the 500. That's what I have been bouncing around too. As I said I have the 350 gr xtp loads which are pretty stout. I would like to get a deer with the light load 400 grain cast bullet. I would think that even at 900-1000 ft per second, it would still be a pretty good deer stopper.

[Dill45]

You could use that primer for the powder, but it may increase pressure.  Not to dangerous levels, but it will.  The load doesn't generate a ton of pressure, so using a mag primer shouldn't cause any pressure issues.  But I don't see the need for mag primers here, standard LR or even a LP primer could give you enough ignition to get that load going.

I personally use 11.5grs of TB under a 400gr LRN bullet from Missouri Bullet Co.  Works like a charm.  Can hardly feel the recoil and groups very well at 50 yards for me.  I haven't chrono'ed it out of my riffle but it gives around 900 FPS out of my pistol.  I would assume in the 1000 FPS range for the rifle, more than enough for Deer of all sizes.

[quickdtoo]

Hodgdon has detailed loading recommendations for TB in any firearm on their website, but they don't mention primers, I would use the primer they recommend in their regular 500S&W data.

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

[guns-o-fun]

Hey Tim,  Thanks for the lead.  That is one reduced load route that I had not thought of.

[manatee1947]

I use the 350 cci in mine right now simply because I happen to have some and that is the only application I have for them. I am not done with load development yet but so far it looks like 14 gr of unique has the nod. Around here very few mag pistol primers are used so they remained available through the shortage. The only danger I have found is that the primers pierce if you jack the load just a bit. There was a very tiny hole when I tried 5744 so I will use LR with that.

[Dill45]

Yeah that was the big knock on using Mag Pistol Primers for the 500 when it first came out, heavy loads were piercing the primer, and even then moderate loads were too.  So the decided to ream it out to LR and haven't looked back since.

If you do load it with the Mag Pistol Primers they will be a little more shallow than the LR primers, from what I've gathered, and it may be hard to get them to go off.  I'm not 100% sure.

I'd really just go with the LR primers so there are no questions and save the mag primers for a 44 or something.

[phatgemi]

You could use that primer for the powder, but it may increase pressure.  Not to dangerous levels, but it will.  The load doesn't generate a ton of pressure, so using a mag primer shouldn't cause any pressure issues.  But I don't see the need for mag primers here, standard LR or even a LP primer could give you enough ignition to get that load going.

I personally use 11.5grs of TB under a 400gr LRN bullet from Missouri Bullet Co.  Works like a charm.  Can hardly feel the recoil and groups very well at 50 yards for me.  I haven't chrono'ed it out of my riffle but it gives around 900 FPS out of my pistol.  I would assume in the 1000 FPS range for the rifle, more than enough for Deer of all sizes.

I like the idea of the 11.5 grs for the 400 gr MBC cast bullet. Just curious about the load though. I found a chart online which stated that the 2.5 lee dipper was equivilent to 11.5 grs of TB. I did a scale check to verify and found that on my scale the 2.5 dipper actually was about 12.5 hrs. A full grain heavier. Wonder if you load was a measured load via dipper or scale.

Also for me, I am torn between using the 500 or my .44 mag barrel. I like the 500 but recoil is more and it just isnt as accurate as the .44  My .44 will shoot groups that touch if I do my part. I am using a 350 gr nosler over 23 grains of H110. Really good deer stopper also. guess it's a good problem to have.

[NFG]

The Fed 215 is a magnum rifle primer usually used in larger case cartridges, with large amounts of slow burning powder and usually heavy for caliber bullets...the same can be said of the larger pistol cases.  

Magnum primers burn hotter and with a little more pressure to help light off the deterent coating on "most" slow burning powders.  Go online or do a search, there are several well written articles on primers with pictures outlining the different brands of primers and level of "brisance", the term used to indicate the level of activity of an explosive...Check out Wikipedia for some very good information.

I use F215's for almost all my calibers with a case capacity of about 60 gr of powder or more with all powders in the burning range of H4350 and slower...357Mag and 44Mag with H110 or slower.

You DON'T need magnum primers for lighting off small amounts of Trail boss... and you DON'T need magnum primers, pistol or rifle, unless it is recommended by the reloading manual for a specific load.  

I never quite understand why people do what they do when it comes to reloading....or just about anything else for that matter so my advice is...

NEVER USE ANY RELOADING INFORMATION YOU READ ONLINE, unless it can be confirmed by a reputable reloading manual.  You are much safer that way.  Absense of danger in one persons load DOESN'T mean danger is absent!!*****

Do an online search for the 500 S&W and primers...there is a ton of information on the how's, why's and wherefore's of primer use...what to do...how to do it and the reasons why...where you can use a magnum primer and where a standard primer will work much better.

You gotta watch those Lil Dippers...they are VOLUME measuring devices NOT WEIGHT measuring devices...I use them all the time for lots of things, but I check them against my balance scale, NOT a digital scale, for every powder each time I want to use one.

Luck

[Dill45]

I like the idea of the 11.5 grs for the 400 gr MBC cast bullet. Just curious about the load though. I found a chart online which stated that the 2.5 lee dipper was equivilent to 11.5 grs of TB. I did a scale check to verify and found that on my scale the 2.5 dipper actually was about 12.5 hrs. A full grain heavier. Wonder if you load was a measured load via dipper or scale.

Also for me, I am torn between using the 500 or my .44 mag barrel. I like the 500 but recoil is more and it just isnt as accurate as the .44  My .44 will shoot groups that touch if I do my part. I am using a 350 gr nosler over 23 grains of H110. Really good deer stopper also. guess it's a good problem to have.

I use a scale.  Though when I started I was using the Lee dipper, but not 11.5grs, it was something less than that, an amount I don't remember.  I decided to switch when I read Hogdgons recommendations on load density for loading Trail boss.  So I filled it to about 90% load density, and then measured it on the scale.  Ended up being just a hair over 11.5grs and I decided to just round it to 11.5grs and call it a day.  Much more accurate than my original load using the Lee Dippers.

[pruhdlr]

Trail Boss sounds like the "cat's meow" for the reduced simi-sight it and simi-practice loads. This,realizing that the velocities have to be bumped up to the desired hunting loads for the final shootings.

I believe that a smallish can is only 9oz,but using the smaller amounts(11gr ~) it is one of the better deals out there. Will pick some up at Bass Pro this week.

Reason for asking about the Fed215's is because I bought several thousand of them when shooting 1000yds in Maine with my .30-378 Wby Mag. Now I find that I have a bunch that will not be used and am trying to substitute them for the normally used CCI 200's and 250's. I simply drop the powder charge by one full grain. Works great !

Am thinking of giving Hodgdon a call and asking about the relationship between Trail Boss and Fed215's. ---pruhdlr

[gcrank1]

Trade them to someone for std. primers and be done with it.

[phatgemi]

Well I wish I could post a picture but having trouble. anyway, I did load up some of the 11.5 gr trailboss under the 400 gr missouri bullet. Five groups, all touching. I believe I have found the load. I would like a chrono to see what they are doing. But I would think they should be fine for deer here in Indiana. I got it shooting just a bit high at 25 yards and great groups. Really a happy camper.


(may have just solved the picture issue)

[phatgemi]

Well actually I see I posted a poor picture. Out of rotation, etc. I tried a cropped version here. should look a bit better. The top right group is the final product. Look out bambi!!!

[tacklebury]

Congrats and nice shooting. 

[Dill45]

Glad to see that TB load is working out for at least one other person!!

Nice groups!

[pruhdlr]

Last night I loaded up some 500's with ---> 370gr Cast Perf WFNGC / 11.5grs Trail Boss / CCI250 / Hornady brass

Will give them a try either this PM or next. Will also chrono them coming outta my 18" bbl.

Also some ---> 370gr Cast Perf / 40.0grs H4227 / CCI250 / Hornady Brass

I am kinda wondering what the recoil will be like as compaired to my heavy loaded 45-70 Handi in the same configuration. ---pruhdlr

[Dill45]

Hope that works out well!  Post a range report after your shooting!

[pruhdlr]

Here It Is ---->

Range day today with the new 500. Set up chrono 10ft from the muzzle. Target was 25yds. Weapon was shot from bench and bags.

My 500 handi has a 18" bbl and a 13.25" LOP. It is fitted with a Leupold Ultralight  2.5X20 with thick riticle. The forearm bbl channel has been relieved and the bbl has a pressure point that is 1" wide and is just forward of the attachment screw hole. I used a small piece of plastic that is glued to the inside of the forearm.

Load A. --- 370gr Cast Performance WFNGC,11.5grs Trail Boss,CCI250,5 shot average was 988fps. This load felt like a medium loaded 44Special out of my Marlin 1894. "Cat Sneeze" fer shur.

Load B. --- 370gr Cast Performance WFNGC,40.0grs H4227,CCI 250,5 shot average was 1744fps. This load was somewhat milder than the same gun chambered in 45-70 with my 350gr Hornady hog loads.

Most of these loads were used to bring my scope to "Zero" so no real groups. The above mentioned bullets were loaded long. The OAL was 2.149". They were lightly crimped into the secound cannaleur down. I can't believe how much freebore this gun has.

Will load up some more rds and head back to the range later in the week. Will finalize the scope adjustments,move back to 50yds, and shoot for groups. Will use the same bullet but with some stout loads of H110. ---pruhdlr

[xhare]

If the 500 mag chamber in a Handi has the same specs has a 500 mag chamber in a revolver, then there would be a lot of freebore. 

[pruhdlr]

Realizing that the bullets shape,ogive and bearing surface,has allot to do with how far to the lands from the case mouth,the Handi's must have a very long free bore. This,also given that some are loading the 700gr bullets in their 500's. With my other Handi's(45-70,444Marlin) I simply seat the bullet so that it can be lightly crimped into the first cannaleur.

By the way,I found that with the 500,lightly crimping the bullets would greatly ease in inserting into the chamber. I made up three "dummy" rounds(w/o powder and primer) and used them to practice. I want to get my fired brass extraction and my loaded round insertion down to a fine science. Also, how I will carry the next couple of shots after the chambered round.

What do you 500 owners do when your brass needs to be cut down to max length ?? Also if you need to pull some loaded bullets ?? ---pruhdlr

[quickdtoo]

If you do a little research, you find that most all H&Rs have longish throats, except for most 45-70s, it's been the topic of about a million discussions here.   If you want to reach the lands in the .500, you'll have to go to a bigger bullet, one that will reach and then some is the 700gr Ranger Rick, cartridge on the left is loaded to the lands.

I use the Lee trimmer, haven't pulled any bullets yet, but I have an RCBS collet puller and a .50 cal collet that will work just fine.

Tim

http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/