Author Topic: Self extracting empties without shooter opening action? (Read 2271 times)

six_284win · « **on:** January 25, 2005, 05:14:31 AM »

This may have already been talked about here but I didn't find any threads on it with the search terms I used.

I am just curious if any of you have ever experienced this. I have personally seen it happen twice.

Factory barrel 7mm TCU shooting a fairly stout but not near max load in the creedmore position.
Chamber the round
Fire
Open the action to extract the empty case and --- it is GONE. --EMPTY chamber. No kidding.

Never did find the two empties and it happened with two different guns, two different shooters.

We have our own theories on how it happened. Anyone else with an explanation or who has had it happen?[/u]

flatlander · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2005, 05:31:39 AM »

:eek: :shock: How many holes does it leave in the target? I think I'd have a real problem pulling the trigger on that one again.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Always glad to have another on board.

six_284win · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2005, 06:49:27 AM »

Thanks for the welcome flatlander

Both guns were 7mm tcu
both shooters were shooting creedmore with a very loose grip
shooting IHMSA targets to 200 meters
jacketed bullets
gi brass

Our 'guestimation' was that the action broke open on recoil and there was enough pressure left in the barrel to spit the case out to the rear, but like I said we never did find the empty cases and it never happened again that I am aware of.

To say the least it was an interesting situation. This was about 22 years ago and it still mystifies me to this day.

Racepres · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2005, 07:38:25 AM »

Very mysterious indeed!!! My contenders are old... firing pin change w/ a screwdriver, and they have failed to fire due to improper lock-up, even when they"seem" locked (a safety thing w/ the breach-block). I cannot imagine how the gun could be able to unlock under recoil?? My experience w/ the 7 tcu is that they can get really hot to the point of "hard to open" without previous pressure signs. I would like to see this happen (from afar)... Marty

bgjohn · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:05:03 AM »

I have had the gun open upon recoil with heavy recoiling rounds. That case went over your shoulder. You nedd T/C to tune your locking lugs on that barrel. Or you can stone those lugs yourself to get better lockup.
JM

RonF · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:45:01 AM »

I had this happen a couple of times with a specific load in a .17 Mach IV 12" octagon TCA barrel, but I can't recall the load data. Seems to me it was a faster than normal powder, but I can't be sure. I don't have the barrel any more.

RonF

rickyp · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:23:20 AM »

I had a 30 herret that did this it would shoot the empty brass over my head. I got a set of new locking lugs from TC and that took care of the troubles.
I wasn't even using warm loads in.

wheelgun · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2005, 10:56:32 AM »

I have a 30 herrett 10" that started opening up when I shot.The brass would hit me in the face.I replaced the locking lugs and that fixed it.

grk · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2005, 09:30:02 AM »

I have a 7tcu that opens when fired. Maybe 6 times in the last 10000 rounds fired. It has never auto ejected though. My brass have been fired many times and after a while the shoulder moves forward just a bit because I only partially resize. This causes the barrel to not fully lock up. After full lenth sizing they work fine again. Just last year I started to full lenth size all of the time.

MnMike · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2005, 06:06:14 PM »

I am really embarased that I can't remember more about this, but I had a .45 Win Mag barrel that would open and eject the brass at me. I call Ed at Ed's TC who I bought the barrel from and he sent me several "thingies" (see why I am embarassed). I installed the best, sent the rest back, and the problem went away. This happened several years back and all I can say is I suffer from CRS (can't remember sh**) sometimes. Wish I could remember what "thingies" were. Oh well, maybe someone else does.

mike

Kivaari · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2005, 03:56:14 PM »

I just had this happen to me today with some warm handloads. I couldn't believe this was happening, but the brass hitting me in the chest :-D is the proof. Also the primers had backed out about .020 or so which means this is occuring WAY too soon with regards to breech pressure.

Soooo, how far should the lugs engage and/or what is the "specs" for the lugs?

It also seems possible that the lug spring could weaken and the momentum could move the lugs forward. I "blackened" the lugs with a laundry pen and the leading edges are more shiny on the left lug than the right (split style). There is also some "peining" on the frame where the lugs engage; in other words this surface is not perfectly level / straight.

poule d'eau · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2005, 05:27:59 PM »

Before ya go filing on anything. Check yer cases, shoulder may need to be bumped. I bump mine at different times for different calibers. 7TCU gets bumped every 4th time, 7-30 gets bumped every time. This will vary what ya can get by with load to load barel to barrel and frame to frame.
Also, DO NOT lube the locking lugs they are made to work DRY. I have seen this happen a lot more in the past couple of years, me included. Even if you get a build up of solvent on the lugs it will cause problems. Another thing 90% of guys pass buy is to knock out the roll pin that holds the extractor in. That space will hold a lot of gunk, lube, solvent etc. The recoil will make it migrate out on to the locking lugs, then you have a problem.
I make it a habit to have brake cleaner or at least rubbing alchol with me at the range and especially on a match day. Have blasted a few barrels with the brake cleaner and no more problems. But a fella really should cleant that area on your barrels once in a while.

Steve P · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2005, 07:57:42 PM »

I have seen similar things happen before. One was also 7TCU, shooter shot, bullet missed below the target, but the gun opened and the brass ejected past me as I was spotting. The action reclosed as recoil reached top of the shooters normal arc. He knew the shot felt funny, but didn't realize what happened until we gave him the brass that flew back about 5 feet.

Saw another shooter with a bolt gun. Shot at a target, hit, opened the bolt to reload, and the brass just zinged away. Went to load the next round and wouldn't chamber. Ejected it and found about the top 1/3 of the prior piece of brass stuck on his case. Lucky it came out.

Was helping out at a sighting in day at the club once. We watched a guy fire his rifle 5 times. He finally laid the gun down, went and got a flashlight from the car, walked in front of his shooting bench, and tried looking down the barrel of the gun. Once we saw him going in front of the bench we immediately got him to safe position, opened his bolt, extracted a live round, and then asked him what he was doing. He missed the paper all 5 times. He thought the bullets must be stuck in the barrel so he was going to check with the flashlight...... :eek:

Watched a buddy of mine shoot 3 6.5BR rounds thru a 7BR one day. Boy was he upset that he was missing the targets, until he relized his error. Now his boxes of ammo are marked in LARGER letters. And, of course, I have to ask to make sure he has the right ammo.....

Hopefully all the silly things that happen remain funny with no-one getting hurt.

Steve

Robert · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2005, 04:06:14 AM »

You guys are getting your leg pulled. Think about what the poster said. The brass is disappearing. The action is closed. I could see the brass ejecting from a bad lug or bad lock-up.....BUT.....IT DOES NOT re-lock the action and the brass does not simply 'disappear in a closed chamber. The barrel would have to swing down and then mysteriously swing back up and re-lock again. Bull!

Steve P · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2005, 09:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Steve P

I have seen similar things happen before. One was also 7TCU, shooter shot, bullet missed below the target, but the gun opened and the brass ejected past me as I was spotting. The action reclosed as recoil reached top of the shooters normal arc. He knew the shot felt funny, but didn't realize what happened until we gave him the brass that flew back about 5 feet.

Quote from: Robert

You guys are getting your leg pulled. Think about what the poster said. The brass is disappearing. The action is closed. I could see the brass ejecting from a bad lug or bad lock-up.....BUT.....IT DOES NOT re-lock the action and the brass does not simply 'disappear in a closed chamber. The barrel would have to swing down and then mysteriously swing back up and re-lock again. Bull!

I guess were all just flocking liars and don't know spit about our sport. But then again, maybe we can earn a few bucks teaching David Copperfield a new trick!! Nah that won't work, Robert's right, we're all liars!! :-D

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Steve

P.S. Anyone know how to take two of the fingers off this glove?

Kivaari · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2005, 03:33:12 PM »

Robert, I didn't take the "disappearing" brass so literal. That's one of the deficiences of the written word. Had that been said in a conversation in person, I don't think it would be misunderstood... My Contender, too, unlocked, breech pressure ejected the brass, and it locked back.

BTW, I replaced the lugs w/o any special fitting and the problem is solved.

The most relavent dimension difference between the new lugs and the old lugs appears to be the "thickness" at the height (looking at lugs as though installed). The .003 difference allowed the lugs to "give" slightly in their horizontal slot which coupled with the leading angle of the lugs for fitting under the frame, allowed them to unlock. Actually, the wear on this particular frame might benefit from oversized "tips" that could be fitted somewhat larger than the "new" set I received.

Elwood · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2005, 04:59:34 PM »

My 10" .223 used to pop open and the rear of the shell would eject. My brass would seperate at the web and it took a bore brush to remove the front portion of the shell. It began doing it all of the time the last time the shell hit me very hard on the forehead! I E-mailed Thompson Center and they got back to me real quick. They said not to shoot it again untill I had U.P.S.ed the pistol back to them. I did and in about three weeks I received my barrel back sporting new lugs and a brand new frame. Pretty nice service, huh. Especially since I had bought the frame used.

Elwood P. Dowd

spinafish · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2005, 08:51:45 AM »

Elwood,
I just love your handle..the name of my favorite actor from my favorite movie..."What did you have in mind?"

contender222 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 14, 2010, 08:09:13 AM »

A friend told me his started opening when he fires it. It's a 300 win. Anyone have this happen?

DANNY-L · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2010, 03:03:31 AM »

I think it could be the oil has'nt been wiped off the locking lug.

HHI-7420 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2010, 11:06:00 AM »

Steve P, some people don't realize what all might happen when you touch one off. Sometimes you can be just plain lucky. I was at the local indoor range one night when this guy came in and rented a 38spl. to shoot. He came back to the counter a little later and complained that the gun wasn't shooting right. He couldn't hit the target and the gun kicked way too much. Upon inspection they found all six slugs lodged in the barrel. It was a very strong S&W apparently. The first round didn't leave the barrel and the fool kept on firing. Honest to the Good Lord! Pat

contender222 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2010, 06:06:55 AM »

We took the 300 Encore apart and the lugs were full of cleaning solvent. Degreased the lugs and frame and it is not opening when fired anymore.