Military civil war rifle muskets, some questions?

[His lordship.]

I have an interest in shooting and military history.  Have been thinking of getting an American Civil war musket, leaning toward the Enfield, either the 2 band or 3 band as I have read that they were the most accurate of the bunch, and have good rear sights.  I also like the blued steel and side lock as this "in the white" bare steel stuff on the American guns has me nervous.

I have read on this forum that the Remington Zouave rifle is pleasant to shoot, the .58 caliber round is a big one and was wondering on how the recoil is?  The length of the rifle is another area.  Would I be better off with the shorter 2 band gun or the 3 band?  I like the look of the long length and this would look great with a bayonet, but did read that the Confederate rebuild shop in Richmond chopped the barrels down to make them shorter and handier on the guns that came in.  There are also some carbine length models to choose from.

I had also read that these Italian replicas are not finished like the originals.  Years ago there was a company called Gibbs that had Enfields made in England that were supposed to be more accurately reproduced compared to the Italian ones.

I have no interest in getting into civil war re-enactments, so this would be for shooting, and historical experience. 

Yet, I rarely hear of shooters using these kind of guns, at my old gun club, there was a group of black powder shooters who only had one 1863 rifle that a guy would shoot.  Would I be wasting my money on one of these Italian made Civil War replicas?

Thanks.

[groundhog107]

I am a civil war reenactor but not so much into shooting live ammo out of my Enfield.  I would suggest you contact the NSSA as they are pretty much dedicated to shooting the arms of the American civil war.  I am sure they could answer any questions that you might have.  Good shooting.

[coyotejoe]

You might want to know that while the Zouave is an OK rifle they never were actually issued to troops during the Uncivil war. The Parker/Hale replicas of the Enfield are a cut above the Zouave and do have much better sights. I like the two band because it is a handier length and the rear sight is mounted farther forward which makes it more visible to older eyes.
 Although made for minie balls they also will shoot a patched round ball very well, often better than a minie, and with half as much lead the roundballs are cheaper to shoot, kick less and have a flatter trajectory. My elk rifle for the past couple of seasons has been a Zouave with a .570" ball, pillow ticking patch and 80 grains of Goex 2fg. Accuracy and trajectory are both adequate to 100 yards, although that is pushing it. I replaced the crude military open sight with a crude peep. 

[His lordship.]

I have been wondering why the Remington Zouave was never issued?  The Rogers and Spencer revolver was acquired the last few months of the war, and they did not get issued, but that makes sense.  The Zouave looks like a really fine rifle, good looking, shorter and better balanced than the 1861 or 1863 Springfield.

The Zouave is mighty tempting as I think it would be a good shooter and the replicas are cheaper too.  But still, they did not see combat.  I appreciate the advice on the sights for the Enfield between the 2 band and the 3 band as I am almost 52 years old and my eye sight is only going to get worse over time.  Lots of guys my age have to use a scope as it is getting tougher to see the rear and front sights.

[coyotejoe]

That's why I went with a peep, scopes aren't legal on muzzleloaders for hunting in Colorado. I have open sights on a couple of rifles I shoot at Rendezvous where peeps are prohibited but my hunting rifles wear peeps. A peep not only eliminates the need to focus on the rear sight but gives a sharper image of both the front sight and target. It's not just an "old guy" thing, I got a peep sighted .22 as a teenager and immediatly saw the advantage over open sights. If the aperture is very small they become useless in poor light but that is easily avoided by going to an aperture size of 1/8" or just a bit less.
 The military went to the peep sight with the 1917 Enfield and never went back. But of course they don't fight in dim light or bad weather.

[longcaribiner]

The as issued Civil War Enfield had it's share of problems.  It was accurate to a point.   The British War Department was constantly tinkering with charges and bullets and loadings to avoid the barrel fouling and loss of accuracy under battle field conditions.   I've been to Ft. Shenandoah and saw what can be done with them in the hands of folks who know what they are doing.  Enfields shoot great with clean barrels but tend to become difficult to load and lose accuracy after the 5th or 6th shot under battle conditions. Granted not many of us will be rapid firing 10 or 12 shots with old coarse powders, as if our lives depended on it.

I have an Italian made Zouave that I use to teach newbies to shoot muzzle loaders and with round balls it is very accurate.   mine is an Antonio Zoli.  not great but not bad.    There are some that seem much worse. 

[Swampman]

I'd suggest one of these.  The US military usually had the soldiers remove the bluing on their Enfields.  The Rebs used them both ways.

http://members.verizon.net/~vze3jhwa/

[simonkenton]

I have a Zoli Zouave that I am fond of. I shoot round balls with 70 grains of powder.
The kick is not bad. I have killed a deer and a couple wild hogs with this rifle, it is a good game getter.
In fact, my buddy killed 2 hogs with one ball. He didn't see the second hog standing behind the first one.


My buddy had a Parker Hale rifle. This was really a beautiful gun, better finished than my Zouave, although, the Zouave is a beautiful rifle.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=952&osCsid=6f2d6e333b59d3d7b9d2863493f98946

[wweedman]

There are many choices of military rifles. I do not favor the Enfields as the straight stock is harder for some people to aim and increases recoil. Go to N-SSA.org and look around. There are a number of manufacturers that sell N-SSA approved firearms that are a bargan for a accurate rifle and historically correct (for approval the small arms committee must approve the arm to be dimensionally correct and of safe manufacture). I have been shooting CW military rifles and carbines for some time and the accurace is very good, equal with just about any rifle with comparable sights. Of course this takes time and experience but the N-SSA has all the experience you would need to get a rifle shooting in short order.

[badpenny]

by all means get the one you want.the 3 band enfield is a great musket and the sights are pretty good.recoil is negligible,with a standard ball load of 68 grains of 2f and a minnie ball.i have a fair number of black powder firearms,and the rifle muskets are by far my favorites.try a lyman 575213OS seems to be most accurate in my armisport 3 band.

[surveyor47]

As far as the Parker Hale Enfield Musketoon Birmingham model is cocerned, I have shot as many as12 shots during 5 minute relays with no tendancy to foul excessively.  Every now and then I forget to clean, while doing target hanging or range safety, so I can safely say that I have fired as many as 20 shots between cleanings.  My load is a 577 diameter minnie and 45 grains of Goex FFF.  Accuracy with minnies is largely dependant upon bullet diameter. I cast my bullets to a nominal .580 diameter and then size them to the guns preferences, in this case 0.577.  Civil war 58s take bullet diameters ranging from 0.575, 0.576, 0.577, 0.578, 0.579 and 0.580.  If the bullet tends to hang up before you complete relays, you can size 0.001 smaller and increase your powder charge somewhat.  My Musketoon is extremely accurate to the point that it is no trick to get 5 shots touching at 100 yards.  

Northeast Trade Company www.northeasttradeco.com makes a sizer that fits right into a RCBS Rockchucker.  

The Parker Hale Enfields also tend to shoot high. The fix is to have a higher front sight blank installed and carefully file it down.  The 50 yard sight is with the elevation ladder all the way to the rear.  The 100 yard sight is with the elevation ladder on top of the first hump.

Springfields have a different type of rear sight. Lots of guys use sight blanks to make peep sights for them.  Sight for 100 yards and correct for 50.

If you want a good shootable gun, I would either buy a Parker Hale Enfield Birmingham gun or a Skirmisher Grade gun from James River Armory.
www.jamesriverarmory.com

www.n-ssa.org