Author Topic: Remington 30  (Read 2749 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Remington 30
« on: January 23, 2010, 03:26:34 PM »
I got to shoot one today.  It was made in 1926.  A fellow found it rusting in a garage.  The people gave it to him.  It was one sweet shooter.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline 243shooter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010, 03:55:02 PM »
deleted
I'm just a bitter Christian clinging to my gun.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2010, 10:51:29 PM »
I got to shoot one today.  It was made in 1926.  A fellow found it rusting in a garage.  The people gave it to him.  It was one sweet shooter.

Oh darn it why do people do that with such nice rifles. Now swampman you know me if it was a Rem 700 I couldn't have cared less but a classic Model 30. Someone wants hanging for an offence like that  >:( what calibre/chambering was it?

1926 it could have been a couple, 30-06 is most likely but it could have been in .270 Winchester  ;)

A gift  :o one that needs a little TLC and perhaps even sympathetic restoration  ;)

Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 01:11:06 AM »
This fellow had cleaned it up nicely.  He did a bluing job that looked a lot like rust bluing and cleaned & oiled the stock.  This one was a .30-06 my favorite.  Recoil was modest but I could barely get my cheek down on the stock far enough to align the sights.

A vintage Lyman Alaskan or early Weaver scope in Griffin & Howe mounts or a peep would have been nice.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 05:51:39 AM »
There was a lot of new Refield reciever sights on e-bay. I brought one that would fit that rifle for my BSA Model E which is a sporterised P-14:-






As you can see it's a lot like the Model 30  ;) Oh the Redfield cost me around $35.

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 09:42:44 PM »
If Remington still made Model 30's and made them like they did "back in the day," I'd probably be as big a "Big Green" fanatic as Swampman is.  That would be a Remington bolt action I could really get excited about.  Of course, if they made Model 30s like they did back in the day, I'd probably be one of the few willing to pay what one would have to cost.  Probably not as profitable to make a nice, classy rifle today as it is to make 770s.

-JP

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 11:41:53 PM »
Ahhhh JPShelton ,

          Your partly correct of course, the biggest problem as I see it is that the average US consumer wants a rifle of the same quality as the Model 30 was but for the price of a crappy 770 or less even. When the company then folds as it cannot make any profit they then all shout how it was bad management  ::). Now this is not meant to be anti American but you have to admit that if you only read down the posts on this forum you'll notice the amount who want more and more for less. It simply cannot be done.

Remington should in my opinion grab the bull by the horns and change it's marketing and certainly it's production policies and return to traditional quality gunmaking. This cheapened stuff it driving the company to the wall. As someone said who was at the Shotshow:-

Quote
When you see a Domestic gunmakers stand and it's full of foreign made guns and sportswear, it's a sure sign the company is in the mire

He was referring to Remingtons stand  :(

However I cannot see any changes happening at Remington as those in charge are either too blind or stupid to see the writing on the wall  >:( and unless serious revisions are made I cannot see them surviving past the half way stage of this new decade  :'( Of course the Model 30 like my Model E was not perfect as let's be realistic the action is rather heavy for standard calibres and cartridges but should they adopt a modified and lightened traditional action and as an example of this I hold up the BSA Majestic  ;) with a good trigger design such as the Timmney it would make a wonderful rifle. I will try to photograph the BSA out of it's stock for you to see. It's a long action being chambered for the 270 Win cartridge and uses the staggered Mauser type magazine with drop floor plate and the feed ramp has two polished grooves to guide the bullet into the chamber from either side of the magazine which makes for very smooth feeding. This action also has the much vaunted "Three rings of steel" in it's breeeching method and of course is old school as it was introduced in 1953  ;) A modified action lighter and something along the lines of the BSA described would sell and it can be push feed as the BSA was or Controlled round feeding like a Mauser. With modern CNC controlled machinery it would be quicker to make than it was 50 years ago and probably easier too.

 I am currently in the process of picking up another 59 vintage one and depending on how it shoots it might be re-barreled, that is if it does not shoot well enough  ;) but they usually if in reasonable condition shoot well. I did look down the barrel a long time ago and from memory it was good and the throat not badly worn.

BSA's of this vintage had cut rifled and lapped barrels  ;D.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 11:44:32 PM »
I'm perfectly happy with my Model 700.  It's a tack driver & a beautiful rifle.  The Model 30 wouldn't sell even at $600.00.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 12:16:41 AM »
Oh swampy my how you change your tune:-

I got to shoot one today.  It was made in 1926.  A fellow found it rusting in a garage.  The people gave it to him.  It was one sweet shooter.

It's really no wonder your the laughing stock  ::)

Ok then let's compare them carefully. Firstly the M30 has an almost bombproof trirger and a safety that works errr shall we look at the 700's?  :-[. hmmm the bolt let's see M30 a one piece forging the 700 ............. bits of tube brazed together and a handle stuck on as an afterthought  ::) hmmmm mecanno comes to mind  ::) reciever... M30 forged and machined steel 700 bit of broached tubing  ::) recoil lug on the M30 is integral with the action while the 700 is a stamped out bit of plate.

Now I would think that the M30 had a cut rifled barrel, whether they lapped them or not ....? ??? but it certainly was not button rifled  ;). One thing that has inproved since 1926 is the stock shape and proportions  ;)

Offline Harry Snippe

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 03:11:06 AM »
I'm perfectly happy with my Model 700.  It's a tack driver & a beautiful rifle.  The Model 30 wouldn't sell even at $600.00.
Well Ellwood Epps ( Ontario Canada) has presently one for sale in 35 Rem. There is something to import if your into something differant .
Happy

Offline Zachary

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 05:53:18 AM »
I am going to step in and put on my moderator hat and make a reminder that, when we post, we should do so in a civil and respectful manner.  That is all that I am going to say at this point in time. 

Zachary

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 06:40:59 AM »
I'm perfectly happy with my Model 700.  It's a tack driver & a beautiful rifle.  The Model 30 wouldn't sell even at $600.00.
Well Ellwood Epps ( Ontario Canada) has presently one for sale in 35 Rem. There is something to import if your into something differant .

Hmmm if it were not for the stupid hoops that you have to jump though to do such I would be looking seriously into it. I know where ther is one in storage which I believe is also in .35 rem but they guy just won't part with it and just pays the storage fees  ::) and I ask every so often and have been doing so for about 8 years now.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 07:18:19 AM »
The thing the 700 has that the Model 30 doesn't, is accuracy.  I love antique rifles but the whole design prohibits the sub-MOA accuracy out of the box that the Model 700s are so well known for.  They didn't become the most popular & the most accurate production rifle in the world without reason.

I'd still like to have a Model 30.  The whole idea of a sporting rifle pieced together out of left over parts is cool.  The Model 30 went on to become the 722/721 and then the 700.

Good old American ingenuity at it's finest. :o
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 02:20:24 AM »
Ahhhh JPShelton ,

          Your partly correct of course, the biggest problem as I see it is that the average US consumer wants a rifle of the same quality as the Model 30 was but for the price of a crappy 770 or less even.


That really is the crux of the problem.  Remington wouldn't bother with something like the 770 if they didn't think there was a market for it.  

Quote
When the company then folds as it cannot make any profit they then all shout how it was bad management  ::). Now this is not meant to be anti American but you have to admit that if you only read down the posts on this forum you'll notice the amount who want more and more for less. It simply cannot be done.

I don't see the comment above as anti-American at all.  It is the truth.  

Quote
Remington should in my opinion grab the bull by the horns and change it's marketing and certainly it's production policies and return to traditional quality gunmaking. This cheapened stuff it driving the company to the wall.


Personally, I think the damage has been done, and Big Green are damned either way.  In fairness to Remington, they can and do make quality guns that are nicely turned out.  The recent 700 CDLs. come to mind, particularly those with the high polish metal finish.  They look as nice as anything Remintion have produced in centerfire rifles since the 1950s.  If the few I've shot are any indication, they work as good as they look, too.  Likewise, the 1100 Premier Sportings that I've seen of late seem to leave little to complain about.  If I thought I needed a gas auto shotgun, I'd buy a Remington 1100 Sporting and enjoy it for the whole of my life.  All of my Beretta 391 Parallel shooting pals would cringe, however.  The 391 has some cheapness to it -plastic trigger group, alloy receiver instead of steel, and that god-awful "extra wood" finish of fake grain film applied to ho-hum walnut.  But it is percieved to be a quality product because the build quality is generally high and the reliability and durability are good.  Whether it should be percieved to be a higher quality product than a properly turned out 1100 Sporting, however, is debatable.  But that sort of thing is what Remington are up against.  It didn't matter when most of the shooting public here viewed Remington in the same way that Swampman does.  The problem that Remington have is that increasing numbers no longer share his view.  But the problem IS NOT that Remington CAN'T make a sporting arm that is engineered well and assembled with care out of first-grade material.  They can and they still do.

The problem is that they also make some poopy crap right at the entry level of the market, which isn't where you want to make a bad first impression.  You may not ever get a chance to make a second one.

Quote
However I cannot see any changes happening at Remington as those in charge are either too blind or stupid to see the writing on the wall

I think you might be right, but I sincerely hope you're wrong.

-JP

Offline Harry Snippe

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2010, 02:45:49 AM »
[[/quote]
Well Ellwood Epps ( Ontario Canada) has presently one for sale in 35 Rem. There is something to import if your into something differant .
[/quote]

Hmmm if it were not for the stupid hoops that you have to jump though to do such I would be looking seriously into it. I know where ther is one in storage which I believe is also in .35 rem but they guy just won't part with it and just pays the storage fees  ::) and I ask every so often and have been doing so for about 8 years now.
[/quote]

It is really not that bad for you guys . It gets a meaner for us to get something out of the states . You think we were going to assemble a firearm here to do a bad  dead .
Happy

Offline Augustis

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 04:05:49 PM »
The thing the 700 has that the Model 30 doesn't, is accuracy.  I love antique rifles but the whole design prohibits the sub-MOA accuracy out of the box that the Model 700s are so well known for.  They didn't become the most popular & the most accurate production rifle in the world without reason.

I'd still like to have a Model 30.  The whole idea of a sporting rifle pieced together out of left over parts is cool.  The Model 30 went on to become the 722/721 and then the 700.

Good old American ingenuity at it's finest. :o

I do not exactly agree with all of these statements historically speaking, IF my memory serves me correctly, without looking up the references to my comments  - The M/721-722-725 and later the Model 700 were not derived from anything Remington had ever produced prior to 1948. On the contrary, these rifles were developed to make Remington products a profitable venture to the company again due to the Reconversion & Modernization program that was developed and managed by DuPont, who BTW had considered closing Remington down at the end of WWII. The general objective of the program, was to develop a new line of Rifles & Shotguns that would reduce the tool operations and fitting required to produce what would become these new low cost of manufacture sporting rifles & shotguns that Remington produced in the Post War era. These product lines were to accomplish those primary DuPont objectives. The M/721 & 722, I believe replaced the M/720, which I further believe might have been the model that was pieced together from surplus parts from the previous war effort. Mike Walkers button rifling process did not come into the picture until the M/721 was released in March, 1948.


Aug ><>

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 12:27:10 AM »
Hi JPShelton,

         Just thought I would mention that I am not enamoured with Berretta either. I think what they have done to Sako and Tikka is criminal  :( and I have never like their O/U's. Now I did like the old 320 Semi Auto but never got around to getting one. I finally acquire a semi auto shotgun the other year a mid 1950's FN Browning Auto Five. It had to be converted to a two shot magazine due to the stupid rules here  ::) and whilst the gunsmith did that I got him to service it and put new springs and washers etc in.

          It's a bit heavy and the bluing is worn with soem ight rust spots but i ahve a feelign it's been used for wildfowling on the marshes round here it has cost me all told about £156 ($260 US) and has a 25"
barrel with a vented rib on it. Not sure what choke it is so after just over 30 years since I first wanted one I fianally got one  ;D.

  As for the Remington 30S rifle Townsend Whelan thought it was the best rifle made for hunting in rough country and in his book "The Hunting Rifle" he particualrly liked the 30S as he found that his 30-06 chambered rifle at 200 yards that it shot all weights of bullet 110, 150, 180 and 220 grain bullets into an 8" bull without a change of sight setting. He attributed this to the heavy stiff action and the shape of the barrel. His Model 30s in 257 roberts also shot the different weight bullets into a close group with only 1 1/2" difference when shooting the 87, 100 and 117 grain bullets.. No where in his appraisal fo the modern production (1940 modern that is  ;) ) did he mention the use by Remington of surplus parts. The based their intial designs on the P-14 rifle as they already had the tooling set up to make it and the modifications to produce the 1917 rifle was already done. it only required the slight alteration to get teh bolt to cock on opening and to the trigger as it seems that most American hunters could not cope with a two stage trigger.

Offline Augustis

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 08:01:34 AM »
Swamp

To give credit where credit is due & to correct my previous comment after checking my resources - The M/30 did appear to use surplus parts as you indicated, but so did the M/720 till the reserve parts were effectively depleted to a degree that a continued effort to manufacture more parts to continue production of the M/720 did not appear to be a cost effective measure, or profitable venture for Remington any longer.

In effect, we were both right in this area.

Aug ><>

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2010, 12:18:57 AM »
Hi JPShelton,

         Just thought I would mention that I am not enamoured with Berretta either. I think what they have done to Sako and Tikka is criminal  :( and I have never like their O/U's.


I don't get on with Beretta's O/U guns, either.  They simply don't fit me.  Now, when I still resided in California, I shot sporting with a group who thought that Beretta was the be-all and end-all to a man, and they would suggest that I buy a gun that doesn't fit and then pay someone outrageous sums to make it fit, instead of simply buying a Citori or Weatherby Orion (SKB) or something else that fits right out of the box.  That's my major complaint with Beretta.  Nice guns, and all that, but they don't fit.  And if I am going to go to all of the grief of getting fitted, might as well go fully bespoke....

I wasn't crazy about the Beretta 92F pistol I carried as a Los Angeles County Deputy Sheriff, either, but that's another story for another time.

Quote
I finally acquire a semi auto shotgun the other year a mid 1950's FN Browning Auto Five. It had to be converted to a two shot magazine due to the stupid rules here  ::) and whilst the gunsmith did that I got him to service it and put new springs and washers etc in.

          It's a bit heavy and the bluing is worn with soem ight rust spots but i ahve a feelign it's been used for wildfowling on the marshes round here it has cost me all told about £156 ($260 US) and has a 25"
barrel with a vented rib on it. Not sure what choke it is so after just over 30 years since I first wanted one I fianally got one  ;D.

I had a 50s vintage Browning Auto Five "Light Twelve" that I paid the princely sum of $300.00 for at a local gun show.  That gun fit me as though it was bespoke and I shot it really, really well.  I thought the mechanism was sheer mechanical artwork, too.  It turned out to not be very practical for my shooting, however.  It is not the easiest thing in the world to detail strip for cleaning and service and that has great import to me now that I am shooting under conditions of high humidity and frequent rain -something I didn't deal with much out in California.  Still, that is the only autoloader I've shot that really captured a lot of the essence of hinge gun feel to me.  I don't own a hinge gun currently, having parted with my Parker Hale by Ugartechea 20 gauge, but will when the right deal on a 28 gauge A y A 4/53 or Merkel comes along.

  
Quote
As for the Remington 30S rifle Townsend Whelan thought it was the best rifle made for hunting in rough country and in his book "The Hunting Rifle" he particualrly liked the 30S as he found that his 30-06 chambered rifle at 200 yards that it shot all weights of bullet 110, 150, 180 and 220 grain bullets into an 8" bull without a change of sight setting. He attributed this to the heavy stiff action and the shape of the barrel. His Model 30s in 257 roberts also shot the different weight bullets into a close group with only 1 1/2" difference when shooting the 87, 100 and 117 grain bullets.. No where in his appraisal fo the modern production (1940 modern that is  ;) ) did he mention the use by Remington of surplus parts. The based their intial designs on the P-14 rifle as they already had the tooling set up to make it and the modifications to produce the 1917 rifle was already done. it only required the slight alteration to get teh bolt to cock on opening and to the trigger as it seems that most American hunters could not cope with a two stage trigger.

American hunters can cope with a two-stage trigger.  They had to "cope" with such triggers affixed to M-1903 Springfields, M-1917 Enfields, and M-1 Garands, and M-14s in the U.S. Armed Services.  I like to hunt small game with spring piston air rifles (Beeman R-9s) with the excellent HW "Rekord" trigger which, of course, is two-stage.  It isn't a question of "coping" but one of preference.  I don't have a preference either way.  Others do, and they tend to overwhelmingly prefer single stage units.  

-JP

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 12:40:32 AM »
I'm perfectly happy with my Model 700.  It's a tack driver & a beautiful rifle.  The Model 30 wouldn't sell even at $600.00.

The shooter of tomorrow is likely to view the M-700 as a throwback, too.  He is likely to have his first exposure to shooting through the military and if he gains that exposure in U.S. Service, it will be through the M-16/M-4.  If he takes to sport shooting, he is likely to seek out that with which he is familiar and has already put his faith in and his very life on the line with.  That means he'll be looking to the AR platform.  The old-school M-700 will be yesterday's news to him.  I think we're getting to a place where even M-700s are going to be tough to sell at $600.00, while AR's going for several times that will continue to sell briskly as long as our government allows their sales to continue.

That's why I think Remington's R-15 is something they should have come out with sooner and why I think it points the way in which sporting rifles are headed in this country.

-JP

Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2010, 04:33:15 AM »
I will never view the AR as a sporting rifle.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2010, 11:50:41 PM »
I will never view the AR as a sporting rifle.

I can't say that I'm surprised that the quoted poster holds this view, as it seems that he holds the opinion that the definition of "sporting rifle" should be universally stipulated as "Remington Model 700."

While he may not ever bring himself to view the AR platform as the basis for a sporting rifle, he is not the future of shooting sport, and the current marketplace already suggests that plenty of people in this country can bring themselves to view the AR as a sporting rifle platform, and the trend seems unlikely to abate, barring government intervention preventing the sale of AR's in this country.

There is more to sport shooting than killing scrawny whitetails and feral pigs in a Floridian swamp.  There's more to sport shooting than Remington M-700s, too.

A lot more, in fact.

-JP
 

Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 01:34:10 AM »
I'm pretty sure I have a lot more time with the platform than you and it's not evev suitable for what it was designed for.  50+ years of hunting all over this country ave taught me that one well placed shot is better than spray & pray.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline anweis

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 05:54:42 AM »
I will never view the AR as a sporting rifle.

If sporting is interpreted as hunting, me either. I would need an AR 15, which would be heavy and expensive, would have too many parts, and would not match my idea of what a rifle should look like.
If sporting is to include various types of recreational and competitive shooting, i could see them as useful.

With my ideas of shooting game and targets at reasonable ranges with walnut stocked rifles i find myself more and more out of fashion. AR and plastic and 800 yard shots and ballistic computers on i-phones are very popular these days.
Then again, something like this is a matter of preception and taste. I am sure that 100 years from now collectors will pay premiums for high grade AR-15s from the 1990s  

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 04:29:48 AM »
I'm pretty sure I have a lot more time with the platform than you and it's not evev suitable for what it was designed for.  50+ years of hunting all over this country ave taught me that one well placed shot is better than spray & pray.

If I were the quoted poster, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that I have more experience, trigger time, or whatever, with a given weapon system or platform than another contributor to this board.

The "spray and pray" comment assumes that rapidity of fire is the sole reason for using an AR type rifle in the hunting field while simultaneously denying the level of precision that MODERN rifles based on the AR platform are capable of.

They aren't my sporting weapon of choice for the hunting field and probably never will be.  But then, neither is the Remington M-700.  Been there, done that, probably never will again.

What I want is a rifle that is accurate enough to hit the kill zone of a big game animal at any range I care to shoot one, that is robust enough to handle hard use, and unfailingly reliable in feeding and function, by design.  I'll happily give up nth degree precision to get all of the features embodied in an M-1903 Springfield -controlled feed, positive blade-type ejection, coned breech, a field stipable bolt that allows service of the firing pin without the use of tools, a positive floorplate latch that won't come undone under recoil, and a striker system with enough inertia to set off any primer out there.

That is what my limited expreince leads me to.  It definitely doesn't lead to a M-700 Remington.  I very well might if I were in to varmint shooting.  But I'm not.  For big game, give me an M-1903 Springfield based sporter, M-98 Mauser based sporter , 1917 Enfield based sporter, or Winchester M-70 or CZ 550 any day.

-JP



Offline Swampman

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 06:14:24 AM »
If you're willing to accept poor accuracy there are other choices.  I'll stick with the Remington Model 700.
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Offline gunnut69

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Re: Remington 30
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2010, 06:31:25 AM »
The M700 is a great rifle but it's got some disadvantahes.. The welded(brazed) bolt especially the handle sometimes fails.. I've sent a few back for repair. Of course I usually see those that develope a problem but see few mausers, M70, and darn few savages. The savages I see are usually the cheaper models and they want rid of the miserable birch stocks with the painted on finish. Some of the later M70s with claws had extractors that weren't springs..they didn't work and had to be replaced. Reminbgton's extractor fails when allowed to get filled with shavings and other debris.. Remington is also known for lousy quality control. Have seen brand new rifles with a sear spring in the bolt behind the ejector.. a chamber rith a ring sooooo bad it required hammering the bolt open on firing..no crown on the barrel(a sporter). The M30 was a cleaned up cersion of the 1917 and a really nice rifle but still cocked on closing.. The M720 wass a further refinement with the cock on opening feature.. The 725 was a higher grade M720. The 721-722 were the first of the M700 series rifles.. The early M700's were well built and worked just fine, as the QC got turned down(off??) more problems showed up, especially with the trigger assembly. To say it's the most accurate is just not true. M70's and others have won a bunch of shooting matches and sillohuete shooters especially like the quicker lock time of the M788. In the shooting sports production game perceptions matter and Remington is more and more being perceived as poorly made junk. Winchester has had it's moments and even Ruger has had it's moment.. The difference is that when your ruger failed there was no aurgument, it got fixed/replaced until you were happy and their QC has never failed as badly as Remingtons.. Imported doesn't hurt the weapons reputation or those H&H Royals would be a lot cheaper... but quality failings hurt a lot.. Remington is dieing a death of a thousnd cuts. Each is tiny but enough becomes fatal..
gunnut69--
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