.223 Handi range report and problems

[Dinny]

Hello everyone,
  Today is my second day off in the last 30 days. Today all my shooting was to zero and therefore only 50yds. I shot a .223 Handi standard weight barrel in 1:12" twist. It didn't like the 45gr HP "white box" ammo all that much, 1 1/4"-1 1/2" 5-shot groups. I tried the Hornady TAP 55gr ammo I had and it shot better, 3/4"-1" 5-shot groups.  I had loaded some ammo some time back and I tried it too. I loaded the 40gr NBT with two types of powder, Varget and H335. This rifle definitely likes the 40gr pills over the other two I shot. With the Varget loads, I consistently shot 1/2"-3/4" 5 shot groups at 50yds. The H335 loads were slightly less accurate printing groups of 1"-1 1/4" at 50yds.

BTW, the forend was part of the accuracy problems in the beginning. I shot without it and the groups slightly tightened. For the rest of the shooting, I installed a rubber o-ring and it shot nicely with it in place.

   Now for the problems. I had several failures to fire. Eventually they all fired, but in some cases, it took four or five strikes to finally set them off. It only occurred with my reloads. I trimmed my brass to 1.745". I noticed the factory brass was slightly longer at 1.750" Am I trimming mine too short? I thought the cases would headspace off the shoulder, is that right? Could it be that I am using a small base sizing die? This occurred about 1 in every 4 rounds fired.

Any info helps.

Thanks, Dinny

[burntmuch]

Cant help with the fail to fires. My handi 223 liked 40 gr Vmaxes with w748. Are you letting the barrel cool a bit between shots. That may help. Glad you finally got a day off

[Dinny]

Cant help with the fail to fires. My handi 223 liked 40 gr Vmaxes with w748. Are you letting the barrel cool a bit between shots. That may help. Glad you finally got a day off

It was cold here and the barrel cooled quickly. I might have some of the W748, I'll give it a try next time.

Thanks, Dinny

[dpe.ahoy]

Check the shoulder measurement, may have pushed the shoulder back slightly.  Wouldn't take but a thousandth or 2 with a short firing pin strike to cause FTF.  Good luck>  DP

[Rustyinfla]

  Dinny,

     I doubt you need small base dies. I'm guessing you used what you had and you reload for a semi auto? I only neck size. The chamber of my Handi is large enough that I can pick up brass fired in my son's Bushmaster and the cases will drop right in the chamber of the Handi. In my thinking this goes against all logic but that's the way it works here.

[Dinny]

Check the shoulder measurement, may have pushed the shoulder back slightly.  Wouldn't take but a thousandth or 2 with a short firing pin strike to cause FTF.  Good luck>  DP

I'll check that the next time I load more. It might be sizing too much of the case and bringing the shoulder back in the process.

Dinny,

     I doubt you need small base dies. I'm guessing you used what you had and you reload for a semi auto? I only neck size. The chamber of my Handi is large enough that I can pick up brass fired in my son's Bushmaster and the cases will drop right in the chamber of the Handi. In my thinking this goes against all logic but that's the way it works here.

You're exactly right, I have reloaded for a RRA before the Handi. I'll try neck sizing too.

Tanks for the ideas!

Dinny

[dangerranger]

one other thing to check is that the primers are well seated.first strike may be seating them. DR. PS. dont ask why I might know that. DR

[Dinny]

one other thing to check is that the primers are well seated.first strike may be seating them. DR. PS. dont ask why I might know that. DR

Don't worry, no one will ask...

One thing for further consideration. The ejector is not catching the case when I load it, instead it is slipping in behind the case as the action is being closed. It ejects the empties just fine afterwards. Is that part of the problem?

Thanks, Dinny

[necchi]

"
"One thing for further consideration. The ejector is not catching the case when I load it, instead it is slipping in behind the case as the action is being closed. It ejects the empties just fine afterwards. Is that part of the problem?""

 Mine does that, have'nt had trouble with miss fires caused by that, I did the conversion so it doesn't eject anymore, but it did the same before the conv.
 I had trouble because I wasn't fully pulling the trigger. Git a dent but no bang. I've been too used to those spring loaded "set" triggers on Ml's. A little consous training of self to fully engage the trigger and problem went away.

 I bump the shoulders just a bit, If I don't I get that sound from the latch wanting ta open. I trim long, too fill the looong chamber neck mine has, it's wayout at 1.079, I wish I could get brass that long but I guess I'll be content with .076

[cwlongshot]

OK, the FTF are ONLY your handloads or both factory and your loads?

Excellent suggestions that if only hand loads your changing HS by slightly moving the shoulder back. Take some of the FACTORY CASES that you fired in the gun and smoke them and re-size increasing the die depth slowly till you just tough the shoulder and stop and set the lock ring. not the shells that FTF may still cause you issue if they haven't moved that shoulder back out... Keep them separated for a while and only work with the factory cases that fired fine. once we work thru this and see what the issues are we can re integrate them back in. (Still keep separate until you get them to fire properly)

FTF with handis aren't that uncommon and like Tim, I keep some Wolff hi power springs handy for just such times. they are cheap and easy to install.

If your trying new powders, 748 has been a long time favorite to 223 shooters. my own favorite is H322 with 52/53G match bullets and match primers.

You can remove your barrel and drop your loads in the chamber. Place a straight edge across the barrel and see if it sits below flush. Do the same with the factory and compare.

Shells dropping in past the ejector/extractor is of no consequence as long as the cases come back out. The ejector/extractor has up/down movement so it can jump around the rim.

Neck sizing exclusive for a handi can be problematic based on the pressure your loading to. Higher pressure rounds it flatly doesn't work well. It will for a loading or two, but barrel to frame movement increases HS to the point where they will no longer fire.

SB dies aren't anything to do with your problems in and of them selves. As you likely know the only difference is that they size a bit further down the case for semi/full auto actions.

Good luck,
 CW

[dwalk]

i have the .223 handi also...it LOVES the 55gr FMJ...0.5" to 0.75" at 100 yds...(admittedly the 0.75" are the most common, though)

the factory does not recommend anything over 55gr using the 1:12 twist; it will not stabilize the bullet correctly

[44 Man]

CW, you took the words right out of my mouth!  Good advice.  And remember if you neck size only, the ammo loaded may not chamber in other guns.  I had 500 cases loaded that were neck sized only in a TC Contender.  I bought a Bushmaster and the bolt would often not close completely on this ammo.  I had loaded them long for the TC and had to bump all of the bullets slightly further into the case.  It was a moderate load and I only moved them a little to guarntee they would feed properly, so there was no worry of increased pressures.  Still would fire reliably.  So I had to buy a body die and size all the cases smaller to chamber in that gun.  So now for my reloading, I try to size to the minimum that will work in ALL my .223's.  I know if I specifically loaded to each gun, I might be able to squeeze a little more accuracy, but that seems not to be an issue and I haven't noticed see any loss of accuracy.  (of course I can not shoot as accurately as I once could either)  But I now leave my sizing die set and I can use the ammo in ALL my guns.  Likely that Dinny can find a compomise that will work for him also.  44 Man

[stimpylu32]

Dinny

I'm with CW on this one , the 223 is the one Handi that I have never had a problem with , it just flat shoots well . 

stimpy

[mitch132]

one other thing to check is that the primers are well seated.first strike may be seating them. DR. PS. dont ask why I might know that. DR

Don't worry, no one will ask...

One thing for further consideration. The ejector is not catching the case when I load it, instead it is slipping in behind the case as the action is being closed. It ejects the empties just fine afterwards. Is that part of the problem?

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny,

My 1988 vintage 1-12 twist .223 barrel's ejector does exactly as you describe. It has the older style ejector and this is its normal operation. I haven't had a problem with mine and usually can shoot a 1-1/8" 5 shot group @100 yards with Sierra 40gr bullets and Varget powder.

This barrel will not shoot Winchester cheap 55gr fmj ammo at all. I had to fire 5-6 times to just set the primer off. My handloads have never given me a problem though. I use CCI primers.

[Dinny]

I may have found the problem. I loaded more .223 today. I noticed, with the first bullet seated, that the shoulder felt like it had ever-so-slightly buckled. I adjusted the seat die higher and brought the seating plug down lower until I had the correct OAL again. Every one after that seated fine with no signs of shoulder disturbance. When measured, the one odd-ball measured .005" shorter than all the rest. Hopefully I found and corrected the problem instead of creating another.

BTW, this is the first time I have ever had this problem, if my logic is way-off, please let me know. I'm still learning 4 years into reloading.

I'm gonna go shoot some of them now and hopefully live to tell the story....

Brb, Dinny

[stimpylu32]

Dinny

Sounds like the die was set too low and trying to crimp on the first one and pushed down on the shoulder , That can happen if the cases grow from when you last used that die at that setting .

stimpy