44mag Handi vs. 45-70 Handi

[yukondog]

Are you shooting iron sights or scope? Is your barrel tight to the frame when locked up?My 44 was the same way till I got about 100 rounds down the barrel,sounds like you have a few dwn. the barrel already[win.,horn.and rem.] If you reload dont give up yet,try changing powders or primers till you find what it likes, but first shoot it for awile.The 45-70 does have more recoil than the 44,I have both and while rem.405gr are mild as far as 45-70 goes it has more thump than 44's do.

[rickt300]

I never fired a single factory 405 Remington load in my 45-70, they just were not common on the shelves around here. And yes the 300 grain bullets "snap". They kill deer in a fine fashion also but so do many 44 magnum loads. On deer at ranges up to 125 yards I can't see how either of these rounds would be "better" than the other.

[kevinsmith5]

I may shock a few people here with this, but I'm gonna have to agree with Swamp about yhe LE's. Maybe they ake sense in an actual levergun, but compared to my Saeco 21A 410 gr (not really a pointed profile, more tapered) their nothing special. Unless you just are not gonna reload, LE's make no sense in a single shot. You can load better bullet profiles for far less money. The LE bullet in .458 only has a BC in the .2 range. And that fast burning powder results in a sharp recoil in a barrel that's more than the 18.5 inches of a guidegun. Now those 300 grain Hornady hollow points Tim loads, they seem another story.... 

[quickdtoo]

You mean the 300gr TSX that won't vaporize a deer when they impact at 2000fps!  But seriously, even it only has a BC of .230 which is identical to the 325gr FTX, those Ruger loads make the 45-70 a 300yd gun instead of 200yds. 

Tim

Trajectory for Custom .458 300gr .Barnes TSX-FB at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23   0.23
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2550   2400   2400   2400
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   3836.3   3.20   0.0   -1.7   0.0   0.000000000
25   2308.7   3550.1   3.08   -0.19   0.21   0.0   0.031861968
50   2219.4   3280.7   2.96   -0.79   1.71   0.0   0.064994779
75   2132.0   3027.3   2.84   -1.84   2.76   0.0   0.099473624
100   2046.6   2789.6   2.73   -3.36   3.34   0.0   0.135379001
125   1963.2   2567.0   2.62   -5.4   3.4   0.0   0.172796187
150   1882.0   2358.9   2.51   -8.0   2.9   0.0   0.211815723
175   1802.9   2164.9   2.40   -11.22   1.79   0.0   0.252533166
200   1726.3   1984.8   2.30   -15.1   0.0   0.0   0.295047541
225   1652.2   1818.1   2.20   -19.72   -2.51   0.0   0.339459588
250   1580.9   1664.5   2.11   -25.13   -5.83   0.0   0.385870361
275   1512.4   1523.5   2.01   -31.41   -10.01   0.0   0.434379647
300   1447.2   1394.9   1.93   -38.64   -15.14   0.0   0.485081284

[tiger yat]

I've got the 44 and it shoots 2" 50 yard groups with the peep sights using the Winchester 240 grain load (white Box).  The gun has less recoil than any centerfire I've owned (30-30, 308, 270, 12 or 20 gauge) and I really enjoy shooting it.  It is an 07 model made after the bore-size was corrected and I'm satisfied with it.  The only issue with the 44 is that it is very barrel-heavy.

I recently bought a 45-70 for my son.  We tried the 325 grain Leverevolution and the Remingon 405 grain load that I think was trapdoor levels.  (it said 'For use in all rifles.")  The Hornadys had sharp recoil during target shooting, but was tolerable standing up.  The Remington trapdoor loads were much milder and he will use those for the first year.  Both loads seemed to group well, but we were only shooting 50 yards.  The 45-70 is not barrel heavy and balances better than the 44.  I'm starting to want one for myself now.

Both of our guns have the wooden stocks and peep sights.

[kevinsmith5]

I still just can't bring myself to spend the extra for those Tim. I know they'd be better on paper than the 21A, but at last count I've sent 477 21A's down range with a MV of 1750 fps and I know where they'll be all the way out to at least 600 yards without thinking. Can you imagine what it would cost me to get that much practice with your hot loads?

[quickdtoo]

~300yds is as far as I'd shoot, I wouldn't need a range finder either which would be absolutely necessary shooting the 45-70 at 600yds.  The farthest I've shot a deer at was 330-350yds with a 308Win, no range finder on that one either, that exceeds my next farthest shot by about 200yds.

Tim

[Squib]

Tim- as much technical info as you post, I thought you would be busting apples at 1,000yds with a .50bmg

you're letting it get dusty because you like handi's?

[petemi]

Tim, I hold over just about 2.5 feet at 300 yards with the .45-70 LE's.  The funny thing is my .50 Hunstsman with two 777 50 gr. pellets and the now rare 470 gr. Maxihunter lump of lead is only a few short inchs lower.  About a two to 2.5 foot holdover on a deer at 300 will dump him with either.  Hornady says the drop on the LE is 27.8 at 300.  I gotta love both of them.  The Huntsman goes out in the morning.  Big cold front moving in, so I think the deer will finally be moving, and we should have an inch or two of snow which will help a lot.

Pete

[Ranger J]

My 45/70 came out of the box shooting great with just about anything I feed it.  It will shoot cast loaded with Trail Boss and 405 Rem Sps loaded with 2400 equally well.  The first .44 mag barrel I had would be best used as a fence post.  I probably went through a hundred different combinations of powder and slugs with very little success.  It more or less patterned with everything rather than grouped.  I got rid of it but later got one of the ''new' 44s and it is entirely a different beast.  It too will shoot Trail Boss cast loads or up to 240gr heavy  Hornady XTP loads very well.  As to recoil, as I have a number of .75 Brown Bess lead balls jammed into the bolt hole the recoil of either is negotiable.

RJ