Author Topic: IMR 4756 for 30 Army?  (Read 791 times)

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Offline T W

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« on: September 07, 2003, 02:57:50 PM »
Have any of you lever gun shooters used IMR SR 4756 for 30 Army? I was given a ton of the stuff and am in the process of working up a 200gr GC cast bullet load and have no info. on this powder.

Thanks

Offline John Traveler

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IMR 4756
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2003, 04:46:45 PM »
Hi, TW!

IMR 4756 is intended for magnum shotgun shells and large pistol cartridges. b have you tried the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook?

If you go to the IMR Handloader's Guide for Smokeless Powders by the IMR Powder Company (replaced the DuPont IMR Handloaders Guide when company was sold)  You will see loads listed in it for magnum shotgun shells and magnum pistols.

From the load tables, charge weights and velocities are similar to those for Hercules/Alliant Unique, Herco, and Blue Dot powders used for the same purposes.

If you call or write the IMR Powder Company (website: www.imrpowder.com) , or 877-IMRDATA they should  be able to give you load data.

I would CAREFULLY use Unique, Herco data and work up a load for that 200 grain GC lead bullet for the .30-40 (.30 US Government).  I would NOT use this powder for a jacketed bullet load.  It's too fast.

I've loaded and shot many thousands of ccast-bullet loads using Uniqe and Herco powders.  That IMR 4756 should be very good for that too.

What gun are you shooting it in?  That would give you an idea of the safety margin you have.

Also, if you really DO have a ton of the stuff, it should be good trading material for something YOU want.

Best of Luck

John
John Traveler

Offline Blackhawk44

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2003, 09:21:40 AM »
Re-read john Traveler, then read again.  He is absolutely correct.  Lyman Cast Bullet manual will have loads, but they are in the same range as Unique and Blue Dot (not same loads).  That is also where the relative quickness (burning speed) falls, between Unique and Blue Dot.  If you can find an old Speer Manual #9 it had loads for 4756 with many cartridges, but a good many could prove warm quickly.  Go Slowly and find some friends with 38's, 357's, 32-20's, 9mm's and some others and make them a heck of a deal.

Offline T W

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2003, 12:05:34 PM »
JT

I am looking for a load for a new Win.(Browning) 95. I plan on trying more then one powder and a pard loaned me two moulds that are 173gr. and 183gr. Both are gas checks.
I will ask IMR for some info also.

Thanks

PS. The only Lyman Cast Bullet manual I have is a Third Edition from 1980.

Offline w30wcf

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2003, 03:17:46 AM »
TW,

In the 1904 Ideal Shooters manual,  Doc. Hudson who was probably the best all around rifle shooter in the world at that time, was working to develop a lead bullet load for the .30 U.S. Army that would be accurate at 600 yards.  His  development efforts eventually lead to the development of the gas check and Ideal's (now Lyman) 311284 (210 grs.) in 1906.

His work is described in the excellent 2004 Gun Digest story by Jim Foral.... The Hudson-Krag Handloads.  

One of the loads that was tried in the .30 U.S. Army  was 14 grs. of Laflin & Rand's "Marksman" powder under a 195 gr. cast bullet which produced 1,350 f.p.s.  

I have a small quantity of this old powder and have tested it in the .30-30 along with a number of other smokeless powders in replicating the old .30-30 "Short Range" loadings circa 1895-1924.  Using a 120 gr. cast bullet, here's how it compared to  4756 & Unique:

7 grs. Marksman - 1,214 f.p.s.
7 grs. 4756 - 1,316 f.p.s.
7 grs. Unique - 1,357 f.p.s.

As we can see, in that application, 4756 is 8% faster than Marksman and 3% slower than Unique.

By interpolation then,  13 grs. of 4756 should be in the same velocity ballpark as 14 grs of Marksman.

On the other side, based on data in an older Lyman cast bullet handbook,
11 grs. of Unique = 1,355 f.p.s.  and based on that data, and the .30-30 Short Range info,  it would take 3% more 4756, or  11.4 grs. to get to 1,355 f.p.s.  

Based on the above then it would take somewhere between 11.4 grs and 13.0 grs of 4756 to reach 1,350 f.p.s. with your 200 gr. bullet. Of course different lots of powder, primers and rifles would also have an effect.  Unfortunately none of the data indicates p.s.i.  

As a further reference, in the .30-06, which has a larger case capacity, with a 193 gr. cast bullet, Lyman shows 12.5 grs. of 4756 at 1,353 f.p.s. / 25,200 p.s.i. and  11.5 grs. of Unique at 1,404 f.p.s./ 24,000 p.s.i.

Have fun!
w30wcf
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
Life Member NRA
.22 WCF, .30WCF, .44WCF cartridge historian

Offline T W

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2003, 07:01:42 PM »
Thanks for the info. guys.
Now, one more question. Should I use a dacron filler with these small powder quantities to keep the powder closer to the primer?

Offline John Traveler

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dacron filler for cast bullet loads
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2003, 04:01:37 AM »
TW,

Use NO FILLER WITH YOUR CAST BULLET LOADS!

The NRA Technical Advisor has for the last several years now, admonished handloaders to STOP using "Dacron", "kaypok", and similar fluff fibre fillers in smokeless cast bullet loads.  This stuff is commonly used for sofa pillow and cushion filler.

The reason is that too many documented cases of chamber and bore "ringing" (barrel damage due to buldged ring in bore or chamber) have resulted in using the fibre filler material.

It's still being explored, but knowledgeable ballisticians seem to agree that the synthetic material (dacron fluff fibre) melts during combustion and forms a momentary bore obstruction.  This is particularly true for medium-to-large case under .40 caliber (THAT INCLUDES YOUR .30-40 Krag!).

For additional information, try a web search using keywords "chamber ringing or buldging" or "reloading cartridges and fibre filler", or some such combination.  The Single Shot Rifle website had a very nice article about this phenomenon.

If I absolutely had to have a filler, I would use 1/4 sheet of  shredded toilet tissue, or cotton fiber (shredded cotton ball) or something that would be completely combusted during firing.

John
John Traveler

Offline T W

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IMR 4756 for 30 Army?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2003, 02:26:42 PM »
Thank you all for the info.
My expertise lies mostly with black powder loads and pistol caliber smokeless. You've been a great help.