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Offline Victor3

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Friction primers?
« on: February 04, 2009, 02:43:35 AM »
 Years ago I used to get these little fireworks we just called "poppers." I don't know the real name. They were an ~1/8" diameter x 1" long paper tube with a string coming out of both ends. You tug on the strings and get a pop. We used to rig them up to doors, toilet seats and such.

 I was wondering if they're still around, and if maybe they could be used to set off a cannon? You didn't have to pull them very hard, so I thought they might be good for small cannons/mortars.
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Offline Backswampcub

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 05:03:07 AM »
    They can still be had online. We used to rig stuff up with them all the time. You could get them anywhere. Now I only see them online. I think they would work if you cut one strin off. Here is a link


http://www.hamcofireworks.com/pulling-tricks-p-290.html

Here is a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfS_kbh1PI
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Offline Rickk

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 07:01:25 AM »
www.skylighter.com <---they have them... I got some from him last just last summer.

I was thinking the same thing as you but havn't gotten around to experimenting with them yet.

Rick
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 04:38:59 PM »
That would be awsome !  If it works , those things are a buck ea and from what I hear it takes about 30 lbs of jerk on the line .

That would move that heck out of my mortar or cannon . I've got to say Doms .22 cal system works very well $8 for 100 .

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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 06:34:06 PM »
From my experience most friction primers don't take a lot of UMMPH to get them to work, maybe about 10 pounds.  Now sometimes you do get some that someone went to town on the crimp.  Those take a healthy tug. 
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 08:09:51 PM »
The ones I buy take a pretty strong pull, and it will pull even a full-sized field piece a little off target.  That's why many of the competition shooters prefer other means of ignition.

I got boxes of those popper things years ago and still have them put away in a surplus O.D. .50 ammo box somewhere, never tried 'em, don't know if they're beyone their shelf life now or not.  I got the impresssion you needed to have a pull that was pretty much in the direction parallel to the long axis of the device.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 10:42:01 PM »
Quote from: Victor3 on February 04, 2009, 02:43:35 AM
Years ago I used to get these little fireworks we just called "poppers." I don't know the real name. They were an ~1/8" diameter x 1" long paper tube with a string coming out of both ends. You tug on the strings and get a pop. We used to rig them up to doors, toilet seats and such.

 I was wondering if they're still around, and if maybe they could be used to set off a cannon? You didn't have to pull them very hard, so I thought they might be good for small cannons/mortars.

They are excellent for this use. I used to use them a lot. I bought thin brass tubing.......around 1/8" diameter, and cut and soldered pieces together to actually make the tube. The design was - I'd take a piece of tubing and file away one one side of it to make a hole - Then solder this piece across a 6" length of tube. You end up with a "T" shaped construction. I'd then saw off (with a small hacksaw), one arm of the "T" - resulting in something like an upside-down "L". -The top part of the device would be around 2" long in total, so you end up with one side-piece of 1" length.
Then I'd pinch the stump of the sawn-off bit and block it solid with solder.
The idea was then that I'd slide a Party-Popper into the side piece and pinch the tube almost closed behind it with fine long-nosed pliers, leaving an opening just big enough for the string to be free, but so it would retain the popper part.
Next, invert the device and trickle fine black powder into the long tube until it's full - Then close the end with a blob of glue.
These things worked a treat ! - They went off with a loud bang and never failed to ignite the main charge.
The good part was that you could re-use them over and over.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 02:46:08 AM »
 and7barton,

 Did you ever try them without the brass tubing? I was hoping that they would work as is, or maybe with just some tape wrapped around them to fit the vent better.
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 05:58:16 AM »
Quote
Did you ever try them without the brass tubing?
He can answer for himself of course, but it seems like his tubing device's purpose is

1.  Keep the string pull in line with the popper's body, since I don't think they'll work much off an "in line" arrangement.

2.  Turn the pop into a bang with plenty of flame to ensure positive ignition.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 02:29:03 PM »
A kind of a twist on the subject of friction primers.
At demos have any of you, to illustrate the danger of being over the vent, put a small steak or chop over it before firing the piece?  I heard someone mention it a year or two ago, but I never followed up on it.  I'm just wondering if it might be a worthwhile visual aid or not.
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Offline Double D

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 03:45:44 PM »
That might be something to do at the Montana shoot. John the Cannonmn our Videographer could do it, you are coming to the shoot aren't you John?


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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 09:34:20 AM »
Oh, sorry won't be able to make the Montana shoot, as much as I'd like to.
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Offline Double D

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 09:48:04 AM »
John, I am disappointed, I expected you to show up with at least one of the 42 PDR's from the Victory!
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2009, 01:02:48 PM »
Quote from: cannonmn on February 07, 2009, 09:34:20 AM
Oh, sorry won't be able to make the Montana shoot, as much as I'd like to.

What if we drove out together?

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Offline and7barton

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Re: Friction primers?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2009, 10:00:59 AM »
Quote from: Victor3 on February 05, 2009, 02:46:08 AM
and7barton,

 Did you ever try them without the brass tubing? I was hoping that they would work as is, or maybe with just some tape wrapped around them to fit the vent better.

Yes. Intially I tried them straight in the vent.......just the popper and nothing else, most of the time they pulled right out of the vent. I then tried them in the end of a straight brass tube, with the string coming out of the side through a tiny hole near the end. They worked around 10% of the time, usually going pop but failing to ignite the charge. I then went on to fill the brass tube with fine powder, increasing the success rate to around 80%. The failures at this stage were due to either the string snapping, or snagging and pulling the entire tube out of the vent (or bending it).
Finally I developed the inverted 'L' shaped tube which had an almost 100% reliability.
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Builder of Cannons and models for South-Western Artillery, Fort Amhurst, Coalhouse Fort and private commissions.
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