My Brass is too soft!!!

[TopperT]

Sorry to fill up space here Tim, but theres more folks on line here then in the BPCR forum.......I know this is a reloading question and I have posted it on the Black Powder Cartridge Loading forum.....BUT..... 

I received 250 Starline 2.125" 38-55 Brass.  Because I had read that Starline is considered "hard" I went and annealed 50 cases.  I used a propane burner, held each case to the flame until just about to glow red, then dumped each into a bucket of water.

Today I tried to load these and every time I went to set the bullet, the case colasped just at the final slight crimp I apply.

I next tried 10 cases with the same head, was, and powder load and these loaded fine.

QUESTION......can I re-harden the soft cases?  and I'm really UPSET with myself (again today) about this.....any assistance greatly appreciated.  BTW this load and diamens ions loads perfectly in Winchester brass......

[trotterlg]

Just do it again but let them cool slow.  Larry

[TopperT]

Thanks Larry.....that makes sense ......  Re-heat to just about cheery red and then let stand to cool.  Thanks........much appreciated .

[JonnyC]

IT HAPPENS WITH AGE.

[TopperT]

Hell Jonny, thats a thought...maybe I should just toss the brass in a bag with a couple of my "little blue pills"

[JonnyC]

Hell Jonny, thats a thought...maybe I should just toss the brass in a bag with a couple of my "little blue pills"

BE careful not to use too many- It may cause them to be too brittle.

[Graybeard]

Based solely on my interpretation of what you say you've done I suspect you've ruined them beyond safe use already. That is not the way you anneal brass.

When annealing brass you want only the first inch or so of the case to be headed and even then not really red hot. If you do that without the base being in water or some other really good heat sink you anneal the head of the case and if you've done that you've ruined them and they will NOT be safe. I'm almost certain from what you say you have done that.

You really should chalk this one up to experience and chunk them into the scrap pile and begin again with new brass. Where you heard that Starline brass needed work before using them I dunno but I'd not ever again trust that source of information for anything else either. Starline is real close to being the top source for brass out there and is of as high quality as you'll find.

As a minimum before doing ANYTHING else I'd call Starline fess up to what you have done explaining precisely how you did it and ask their advice. I'm pretty sure that if you did what I think you did they are gonna tell you to not use them. If they can be safely saved they'll tell you specifically how.

[TopperT]

THANK YOU........safety first of course.

[Inrut24/7]

Not to sound dumb, but how would soft brass be dangerous?  can it cause case head seperation?   would to soft of brass be more dangerous than old brass that is brittle?

[Smokin Joe]

TopperT, run them thru the sizing die routine several times. The sizing/expanding will work-harden them somewhat.

[kaipo_boy]

Nope. The long, thin walls of a case are supported by the chamber walls and are expected to expand. This is how you can insert a cartridge into a firing chamber; because it is undersized and smaller than the chamber. During firing, the front half of the case expands to fit the chamber. Without this, the hot gases from the front end, where the bullet is being released, will work back down the side of the case and spew out the breech into the shooter's face. So the front half MUST expand to fit the chamber tightly. That's where it stops. The very back part of the case is very thick walled and not designed to expand. It floats in the chamber and because it cannot expand, it must remain undersized. This is how experienced shooters gauge pressure from their loads; by using a micrometer on the case webbing in back, just in front of the extractor groove. A movement here of half a thousandth will tell you that your load is too hot and dangerous.  But if you've annealed that brass so that it no longer has the proper strength, it will expand and lead to difficult extraction at best. At worst, you'll have a case head separation and might lose an eye or part of your face. Hope you're not that attached to your good looks, because shooting this way and taking chances with hot loads or bad brass will get you separated from your good looks and maybe your life very quickly.  What's the cost of a few pieces of brass? Weigh that against your health and tell me if that's a good trade or not.  Be safe.

TopperT, what Graybeard was referring to, is next time you anneal your cases, stand them up in a flat pan with water in the pan. The water serves to keep the bottoms of the cases cool so the heat applied to the necks doesn't also anneal the case heads where you need to retain the strength and do not want any heat applied. Then after heating you just tip them over into the water.  Although full annealing does not happen until you approach what is known as the critical temperature for that metal, even as low as 400 degrees F (water boils at 212 F) some metallurgical changes can still happen, although they are much reduced and slow at that temp.

aloha,
walt

[Fred M]

I agree with GB. You ruined the brass. Don't do this again, you should only anneal to the shoulder and not red hot only a slight
change of color 600-650F. Set your cases in a pan of water and heat only the top 5/8".

Besides how do you figure out how hard the brass is. Brass as it comes from the factory is seldom too hard unless you need to drastically reform brass there is no need for annealing.

[TopperT]

Thanks again for the information.......in my other post (BPCR Forum) I had more detail.  I ONLY heated the case mouth until its  "just about" to turn light red......sort of a soft glow as it were.  And ONLY the case mouth and as soon as I got the color I dumped each into water. 

BUT.....in retrospect this wasn't such a smart plan   I'll call Starline today. 

Thanks for the information and safety concerns.........  I am relatively new to reloading and so far most of my efforts have gone smoothly....this was my first real "issue" and its a great learning ($$$) expearience and if the brass is ruined.....well then its served an educational purpose.  Thanks, Jim

[sr sawyer]

It is helpful to do your annealing in low light conditions so you readily recognise color changes from the heat.  As previously stated do not heat to a glowing red hot but only a reddish tint.

[merkelerk]

From my metallurgy schooling and more importantly, from my own experience, nonferrous hardens with slow cooling (grain size and recrystallization) ferrous (particularly higher carbon) hardens with quenching.

Like the others said, reheat and slow cool them, they should be fine.