Scout Handi's

[woodchukhntr]

I just thought that I would share pictures of my 2 "Scout" Handi's.

The .45-70, bought last fall (1993 receiver) is equipped with a Simmons 2x20 pistol scope on a Weaver 92A base that is attached with one screw to the rear sight screw hole and is cemented on with JB Weld.  The buttstock is from a youth shotgun.

The .30-30 (2005 receiver) was bought in like-new condition last week and is now equipped with a Leupold M-8 2x (I only had a silver one on hand) mounted on a Weaver 92A base attached with 2 screws to the rear sight screw holes.  I was at the range with this one Saturday and it is sighted-in @ 100 yd. with Hornady 100 gr. Short Jacket bullets with 16.0 gr. of 2400, giving a 1-1/16" 3-shot group.  I thought that was good enough for now!

[darat100]

ok, I have to ask.  Another member had one of these setups not long ago.  What do you use it for other than areas you can't see over 30 or so yards.  You give up so much in your sight picture, I don't see the advantage.  I have shouldered a couple, and love the feel, but just seems like too much to sacrifice to me.  Enlighten me.

[woodchukhntr]

I have been using scout-rigged shotguns for a number of years and now rifles.

The guns are easier to carry since you are not reaching around or over the scope.

It is somewhat like using a peep sight and somewhat like shouldering a shotgun when bird shooting since you automatically align with the scope when you shoulder the rifle, and the target is there in front of you.  You don't have to think about it, the low-power of the scope is less a magnification aid as it is having the advantage of the target and crosshairs being on the same optical plane.  It is actually faster to get on-target than with a conventional scope setup.

As far as range, it is more a function of the scope magnification than scope location.  I like low-powered scopes for deer guns.  You don't need 3x9 scopes for deer up to 200 yd.  Finn Aagard wrote an article a while back that compared different scope powers and found that there in no real advantage in the field for higher magnification.  I have found that there is a real chance of having the scope set at a high power when you need low power.  My preferred scope is 1.5 x 4.5 for a conventional deer gun, but use 1.5 or 2  power scopes with confidence.  On a varmint rifle, a standard high-powered scope is definately better than the scout.  Also when determining a rifle's potential accuracy, a high powered scope is best, although my 1-1/16" group last Saturday is nothing to put down.

I guess that you have to actually try it if you get a chance.  Put away your preconceptions before you try it.  A generation ago, hunters were putting down scopes for the same reasons, and now you don't see many iron-sighted guns in the field anymore.

[s_hawk]

ok, I have to ask.  Another member had one of these setups not long ago.  What do you use it for other than areas you can't see over 30 or so yards.  You give up so much in your sight picture, I don't see the advantage.  I have shouldered a couple, and love the feel, but just seems like too much to sacrifice to me.  Enlighten me.

I've had a Steyr Scout which I sold for about what I paid for it and I have a Ruger Frontier. The Steyr was in .308 and the Ruger I have is 7mm-08. From a rest I've made about a 250 yd shot twice and 150-200 yd shots 6 or 7 times. These were shots on pipelines and I had time to set up and shoot. The real advantage, for me, of the Scout is hitting a running target out to 50 yds. I do a lot of stalking and, IMO, I get a better picture with a Scout scope then open sights on a running target. For where I hunt, which is brushy country, its the best setup you can get for stalk hunting.
Hawk

[quickdtoo]

Here's some scout scope info.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/scout_scopes.htm

[s_hawk]

quickdtoo,
Thanks for putting up the link to what Chuck Hawks said. I've studied the Scout concept for a number of years and also used the 94 with a forward scope back in the 60s. First, Cooper's idea of the Scout foremost was not as a hunting rifle, but a rifle for Combat. The Steyr Scout was set up for that purpose and has been used effectively in that venue. As to hunting, I agree with Hawks to a point as to a scout setup. For normal shooting from a stand
or in long range plains country the Scout setup is inferior to a normal scope setup. However, if Mr. Hawks feels a standard scope setup is better on running game out to 50 yds then a Scout setup, I would have to respectively disagree. The Piney Woods in East Texas are perfect venues for the Scout
setup if you stalk through the woods. Your shots will usually be from 15-50 yds and normally the deer will be moving fast. A shotgun would work as well except there is always the chance of spotting a real good one 200 yds down a pipeline. At that distance a shotgun isn't what you want. A Scout setup
with the Leupold or Burris Scout Scope under the conditions I hunt under in East Texas is better all around then a shotgun or normal Scope setup, IMO.
Hawk

[quickdtoo]

I just set up my 357Mag Handi in a scout configuration using a Weaver 2x28 scope, it's the only scout scope I've ever handled, haven't shot it yet, but from all I've read on it over the years, some people can use it, others can't, it's definitely a "both eyes open" afffair or it isn't gonna work very well, many shooters can't adjust to shooting with both eyes open using a scope or hard sights, so it's just a matter of being familiar with what you're using. For the effective range of the 357mag, a scout setup is likely a good candidate for a close range brush gun, which we have plenty of here in western Washington, so I'll give it a try in some of the places I hunt just so it gets a chance to make meat, but I'll know more about how I feel about it after I spend some time at the range with it, I don't have a problem using a low power scope on deer and elk, 99% of all em I've killed in the last 45yrs have been mostly with a scope set on 2x or 3x at ranges from up close and personal to 120yds or so, lots of close running shots that the scout would be prime for.

Tim

[s_hawk]

I just set up my 357Mag Handi in a scout configuration using a Weaver 2x28 scope, it's the only scout scope I've ever handled, haven't shot it yet, but from all I've read on it over the years, some people can use it, others can't, it's definitely a "both eyes open" afffair or it isn't gonna work very well, many shooters can't adjust to shooting with both eyes open using a scope or hard sights, so it's just a matter of being familiar with what you're using. For the effective range of the 357mag, a scout setup is likely a good candidate for a close range brush gun, which we have plenty of here in western Washington, so I'll give it a try in some of the places I hunt just so it gets a chance to make meat, but I'll know more about how I feel about it after I spend some time at the range with it, I don't have a problem using a low power scope on deer and elk, 99% of all em I've killed in the last 45yrs have been mostly with a scope set on 2x or 3x at ranges from up close and personal to 120yds or so, lots of close running shots that the scout would be prime for.

Tim

Tim,
That sounds great!! One thing, you are correct that its a "both eyes open" affair, but it will still work well for those whose shooting eye is not their dominant eye. For instance, I shoot right handed but my left eye is dominant. In using my scout, when the deer moves the rifle comes up and I have both eyes open, but will close the left when I have the rifle pointed at the deer and following. I've never had a problem picking up the deer quickly, getting a short lead and firing quickly. I really like the Scout setup. Let me know your thoughts on it when you get a chance to work with it.
Hawk

[Kojak]

The scout setup seems like a good solution to my sight dillema (sp? Its late). Considering i do all my internetting via phone and cant see pics of your handis, what would y'all consider an ideal butt stock for a scout? Monte carlo or a "standard" straight comb?

[woodchukhntr]

Mine are mounted as low as I could get them, the scope bell might actually touch the base if I moved the scope forward a little.  And since there is no large diameter front bell on the scope, the standard straight comb works very well.  Sight alignment is natural, this is one reason why this setup works so well.  If you only have a raised comb stock, I would try high or maybe even see-thru rings.

[Guy Pike]

I have found the Leupold/Gilmore red dot to offer the same advantages as the scout set with the caveat that one must rely on a battery. I have had very acceptable results at !00 yds. with various rifles and the Central NH woods are so thick that I don't even recall using the sights for most of my deer. Just another lightweight alternative. Guy

[woodchukhntr]

The first setup I had was on a Ithaca SKB 900 deer gun.  I bought it with a pistol scope mounted on the rear sight base on the barrel.  The sight bases back then had a place to mount tip-off rings on them.  Next I found Millet rings for the Remington 870 & 1100 shotguns.  These rings mounted directly on the vent. ribs with set screws.  I have a Bushnell 1" red dot on mine.  My buddy found that you can mount tip-off rings on the cantilever bases of the first-generation Remington cantilever barrels.

As you say, Guy, the red dots work very well except you are relying on a battery.  Always bring a new spare.  My friend put a cheap holo-type sight on his .45-70 guide gun last year.  It worked very well except when he was in open sunlight and couldn't see the crosshair, or whatever it is called on those!