long vs short

[Brithunter]

Ahhh if you look at European cartridges in the main the bullets bases are not seated deeper than the base of the neck  for some reason US cartridge designers seem intent of putting long bullets in cases with half the bullet buried in the powder. The Mauser 98 was designed with a length suffcient to comfortably handle the 7mm & 8mm cartridges with the bullets seated where they belong  . The cartridge length problem only occurs when cartridges like the Springfield 06 is used in a Mauser 98, but even as adopted the 30-06 has it's bullet seated deeply, as does the 308, 243,270 Winchester cartridges and so does the 6mm Remington. One could also ask why they made the Springfield cartridge was made longer than the Mauser cartridge it's based upon yet yields lower velocity?.

Luckily my 30-06 rifle allows the bullets to be seated out with the base level with the neck shoulder junction even with 180 grain bullets yet strangely enough it's built on a commercial (Spanish) action, it's a Parker-Hale 1100, now I don't have a Military Mauser 98 to compare the action too so it's possibly a bit longer?

[AtlLaw]

... a longer barrel is benificial to velocity (at what point does deminishing returns kick in?? ),...

Hey Bee,
I don't know if this is a rhetorical question or not, but I've been of the understanding that the location of this "point of diminishing returns" has to do with the pressure curve and the burn characteristics of the powder being used.  I am under the impression that as long as the pressure created by the expanding gas created by the consumed powder (propellant) exceeds the pressure it takes to drive the projectile at it's velocity at any given moment, there is the potential to increase that projectiles velocity.  So, as I see it,  it is more reasonable to generalise barrels into catagories rather then inchs.  For example, from an arbitrary base of 22 inches or whatever the factory standard is for any given round, the barrel can be termed:  wastefully short (or painfully short if there is a large amount of potentially velocity producing gas that escapes behind, then around the projectile, commonly referred to as muzzle blast), short, optimal, long & rediculously long.   

BUT!!!!  I believe that any such designation, be it inches or catagories, will be accurate for just one loading, and one load only!  If you change the powder used or the amount of powder used or in any way change the burn characteristics of that one load, you change what's wastefully short, short, optimal, long & rediculously long with regard to barrel length.  Hence my recommendation to the OP "grab whatever rifle-gun you got, load up some ammo, shoot it and see what you get.  If you don't like it, load up some more based on what the loading manual tells you will get you closer to the "benefit" you want!"

... certain cartridges benefit from being loaded in a long action even though they work handily through a short action. ... The idea is the bullet can be set out long giving more powder room  ... Whether or not it's worth the trouble would be something each shooter would have to decide for himself.

I must admit, I am subject to a variation of this craze.     I have often thought of having the magazine spacer removed and the bolt stop trimmed on my one belted magnum; a 300 Win Mag.  The idea being that by creating what would essentially be a magnum lentgth action, I could seat the 300's bullets out father thereby increasing powder space and affording the oportunity to load the bullet closer to the lands if I wanted to do so.  I have avoided this temoptation for many years now, but I still may do it... sometime.  Over the years my opinion of the two above mentioned "benefits" has changed to a point that I don't see much of a benefit anymore.  Therefore I am a perfect example of both sides of your statement!   

[SHOOTALL]

The one thing not noted is the longer the BBL the longer the bullet is in it , and the longer the shooter has to influnce the shot ! Or said another way the longer the shooter has to screw up the shot . This should be consideres when looking at returns MAYBE  ?

[beemanbeme]

Brit, I don't know about your folks but over here we have a strong tendency to take a single facet of an entire endeavor and try to make a doxology of it.  We will read in a accuracy article about how xxx takes his one off rifle (cost $4000) with the special cut chamber and leade and seats a custom bullet exactly .97234" off the lands for optimum accuracy.  Then we take our box guns (cost $600) and haven't a custom chamber nor leade nor custom bullet but by God we can set the length of bullet jump and that becomes the golden grail of accuracy.  And that altar is worshipped at by every gun writer and shooter in America.  Everyone has a story about his rifle that wouldn't hold 6" at 100 until he seated his bullets .97234" off the lands and then it started shooting groups that would win most Bench competition. 

I agree with ATLlaw (does that stand for lawyer in Atlanta??). As one gets a little longer in the tooth, the word "significant" comes into play.  You read the posts of "I won't keep a rifle that won't shoot xx groups."  or " if I do xxx I get another 100fps" but as you get older, the question you ask yourself is is that "significant?  If you're shooting competition, many things are significant that aren't if you're main purpose is killing stuff.  Do you have to have a .5 rifle to kill a deer or elk.  If you can just cobble up some ammo and get .5 results, that's great but I've found to go from say 1.25 to .5 takes a lot of effort and shop time.  Time that could be spent shooting and practicing killing stuff.  I find that driving a 200gr bullet out of my .300Winnie at 2800fps is a lot easier on my nerves than trying to reach for an elusive 3100fps.  And the resulting degrees of dead have been acceptable.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade.  I think everybody should study and try all of this stuff.  I know I did.  And that was back before the easy access of cyberspace.  It's fun and enlightening and helps you better understand our hobby.  If you don't know how to do it all, then you don't know which parts are important and which parts aren't so significant. 

[AtlLaw]

It's fun and enlightening and helps you better understand our hobby.  If you don't know how to do it all, then you don't know which parts are important and which parts aren't so significant. 

And that dear friends, sums it up completely!     And, the truth be known, is probably why these forums are so popular!  We get to communicate with people of like interests, discuss what we've learned and maybe, if we keep an open mind, learn something new!  This is FUN! 

Bee, correct.  From the old LA Law TV program.  The only thing I could think of when I first got on the internet, back when the ISP charged by the minute.    Screen name?  you want a screen name?? what the heck is a screen name?