Shoot .375 win in 38-55?

[student1946]

If I buy a H&R target model in 38-55 Win, can I shoot .375 Winchester in it?I know it's not a good idea in an old Winchester lever gun.

[44 Man]

Well, I don't think anyone will advise you to use a cartridge not designed for you rifle.  But with that said, your gun should easily handle the higher pressures if it will chamber.  The problem may be one of accuracy.  The 38-55's bore was designed to use bullets of .377 to .380, while the .375 Winchester used a .375/.376 bore.  If you have a tight bore, your accuracy could be good, however if it is on the large side, jacked ammo for the .375 Win may not shoot well.  If you have to use cast bullets to get the accuracy you want, what difference does it make?  You might just as well reload in 38-55 brass as .375 Win.  The 38-55 brass is also slightly longer than the .375 Win.  Hope this helps.  44 Man

[handirifle]

44man is right on the money.  I own a WInchester 94 BB in 375 Win and I also have a H&R 38-55 Target model.  There is a considerable difference in bore dia and it will be a waste of expensive ammo (the 375 is not cheap ammo) and a result of poor accuracy.  You'll be unhappy at best.

If you get the 38-55 get some good brass and bullets sized to .379 or .380 and you'll be happiest.

[OHHJIMMY]

The Target model has been dropped from the 2008 catalog, but you could still find one if you wanted it. The oversized bore is a problem. Mine shoots Buffalo Bore brand and Winchester brand fine, but some people have had problems with even those. The Buffalo is .277 dia. and is loaded to 1950 fps. Not as hot as 375 win., but still pretty stout. If you handload, no problem, just get the larger dia. bullets.

[student1946]

Thanks for the advice.I was tempted by the apparent extra power of the .375Win,but I can see I'd be better off using the correct ammo.It's not like the 38-55 will exactly bounce off a game animal's hide.

[handirifle]

Thanks for the advice.I was tempted by the apparent extra power of the .375Win,but I can see I'd be better off using the correct ammo.It's not like the 38-55 will exactly bounce off a game animal's hide.

There's no "apparant" about it, the 375 is way more powerful.  Like comparing the 30-30 to the 308.  Win never loaded their factor ammo to the SAAMI pressures the case was designed for.

I think a better move is to buy a 30-30 barrel and have it bored and rechambered to 375 Win with 375 bore dia.  Then, like the 45-70 you can load from mild to wild.

[quickdtoo]

If you're gonna spend the money for a rebore/rechamber, I'd do it to at least a 24" 223 barrel as Ian did, or  buy a 28" 38-55 barrel and have a 405 Winchester made out of it, or a 26" 25-06 barrel and have a 375-06 or 375 Whelen or 375 Hawk made out of it, the possibilities are almost endless when you get into reboring.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,104893.msg1098293513.html#msg1098293513

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105703.msg1098298601.html#msg1098298601

[garandsrus]

I haven't done this, and am just asking a question to gain some understanding based on the thread talking about re-boring barrels to new calibers...   I have never had a barrel re-chambered or re-bored.

I have a Handi Target rifle in 38-55.  Why do I need to shoot a lower pressure load in the 38-55 Handi barrel than I could if the barrel was a .375 Win?   I understand that the max pressures of the two rounds are very different.  The target Handi barrel is much thicker than most high pressure barrels but it is still made for smokeless loads.

Is the 38-55 barrel steel or heat treat different than what they would make a .375 Win or 30-06 out of?  If the38-55  brass is the limiting factor,a person could use .375 Win brass.  I have shot normal 38-55 pressure rounds in the 38-55 with .375 Win brass with the bullet seated long so that the OAL matches the 38-55 and it works fine and the pressure should be the same or a little lower as if I had used a 38-55 case since the OAL is the same.  The .375 Win case is about 1/8" shorter than the long Starline (2.120?) 38-55 brass.  The extra length would be useful for black powder, but there is plenty of case capacity in the .375 Win with the appropriate smokeless powders.

The receiver should be able to take the pressure without any problems as I could put a 30-06 or other high pressure barrel on the same receiver and no-one would complain.

I understand that the hotter 38-55 loads could not be used in a vintage 38-55, so that is not part of the question.

Also, How do you pick a caliber/barrel to re-bore to a larger caliber and know that the barrel will still hold the pressure?  One of the examples in this thread was "buy a 30-30 barrel and have it bored and rechambered to 375 Win with 375 bore dia."  This seems like a huge jump in "hole" size to me for a given barrel thickness.  The .375 Win probably operates at a higher pressure than the 30-30 also.  If this is safe, why would shooting .375 Win pressure loads in a 38-55 Handi not be?

Thanks,
John

[quickdtoo]

H&R centerfire rifle barrels are 4140 chrome moly, so the barrel material isn't an issue, the chamber swell diameter is the same for all rifle barrels, 1.1XX", and barrel diameters aren't an issue either, I've discussed with my gunsmith, Wayne York on having a 26" .25-06 or .280 barrel rebored to .375"-06, the barrel is plenty heavy for that application, muzzles of the 26" barrels are ~.675", it may be my next rebore, haven't decided yet, still waiting for my 6.5 Swede Ultra to be finished. I already had him do a .338-06 A-Square from a 25-06 barrel, and the .405 Win from a 38-55 target.

Tim

[Badnews Bob]

Ok I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes, Ians .375 barrel is about 4" shorter than my .38-55 and smaller in dia. noticeably lighter, No big deal in any case but I thought it good info. ( I know this because I am the one who shot a deer with Ians rifle this season.) Now the part people may not agree with but look it up, I don't have these numbers with me but they are in reloading manuals, In every manual Ian and I have looked at diffrent loads for the .38-55 will be higher pressure than the .375 and vise versa, strange as it seems its true. Now considering the rifles are Identical in design as all other current handies there should be no reason why a .38-55 can not shoot .375 loads.

My .38-55 does have the funny chamber but I am gonna have it sent in and have the chamber cut to fit the .381 dia. bullets my rifle likes to shoot.

Also it is a very potent round for whitetails, That buck I shot with Ians was knocked sideways when I hit him and he might have made it 40 yards before piling up, excellent performance in my eyes.

BTW .379 or smaller bullets won't shoot for beans in my rifle gotta be .380 or larger so factory .375 win ammo is out.

[handirifle]

The barrel will handle any pressure that the factory loads develop, that would include a rebore from 30-30 to 375 or 375-06 for that matter.

The suggestion was only to get true 375 Win bore dia.  The 38-55 and 375 are not the same dia and that was why Winchester made the bulets a true .375 for the 375 caliber.  The 38-55's have always been at least .376, usually more like .378 or larger, in most guns thus chambered.

Your target model will handle the pressures of the 375 no problem, but the bullets may not.  There is a decided lack of jacketed bullets in the 38-55 dia, but not so in the .375.  Once you push cast bullets over 2,000fps leading can become an issue.  Some have this, some do not, but 2,000 is the general rule.

I am using load date from Hodgdons books and with a 200gr jacketed bullet, it pushes the high 2400's and low 2500's from my 20" barreled levergun.  Start pushing cast bullets that fast and you leave a lot of the bullet in the barrel.

By the way, there'd be more steel left around the handi 30-30 barrel, bored to .375, than there is on my factory 375 Win barrel of my 94 BB.

[quickdtoo]

The SAAMI MAP for the 38-55 is 30kcup, the 375 Win is 52kcup. The Lyman 48th warns against loading either cartridge in the wrong rifle, stating incompatible neck diameters can cause serious hazard, and we already know the 38-55 Target has neck issues even with ammo made for it.

As far as velocity and cast bullet, that's why they make gas checks!!

Tim

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

[handirifle]

I don't know of anyone pushing cast to 2500fps with or without gas checks, that doesn't get leading.  Also I believe some compainies load the 375 well below the SAAMI limit.

My Win factory 200gr loads produce about 2300fps and the reloads, well below max loads are mid 2400's. 

[Badnews Bob]

I guess I read the original post wrong, I was thinking about safety not accuracy, As handierifle posted .375 bullets are way to small for my .38-55, It shoots patterns with them not groups. That being said Gas checked  250gr .381 dia. hard cast work just fine @ 2000fps or so.

[garandsrus]

Thanks for all the replies about 38-55 vs .375 Win in the Handi target rifle.  I am familiar with the different bullets sizes, I was just trying to understand whether or not the pressure that the Win .375 operates at would be a problem in the 38-55 Handi.  Apparently it's not, which makes sense to me, but that's why I asked!

I do have a Win 94 BB in .375 Win.  I shoot mostly gas checked cast bullets in it.  I have some jacketed bullets, but don't think I have ever shot one .  I also shoot cast in the 38-55.  I don't have any jacketed bullets for it and haven't looked for any.  The mold I use most in .375 Win is the Lyman 375449 which is gas checked.  I size them .379.  They do shoot OK out of the 38-55 at .379 but the accuracy is 3-4" inches at 100 yds.  It should do better, and I am betting that a larger diameter bullet will be the trick.  My 38-55 is a "new" model so the chamber is correctly sized.

Thanks again,
John

[jjamna]

I have a 38-55 target and you may be able to shoot the 375 win but you won't be able to hit anything. The attached photo has a .374 dia bullet pushed in the barrel of a 1871 target with one finger and very little pressure. The bore measures .381 and 375 win. bullets measure .374. I have tried to sight it in with factory ammo that has .374 bullets and they are flying all over the place. Some even key holing.