This may be good news Winchester is back with the M70

[old06]

Just picked this up from another site. can anyone confirm?
Hopefully the 94 and others may follow...

The Model 70 Is Back!

Morgan, Utah - The Winchester Model 70 is one of the most respected bolt-action rifle designs in the world. Winchester Repeating Arms is excited to announce the return of the Model 70 for 2008. The All-American Model 70s will be built by American craftsmen in Columbia, South Carolina, at the same state-of-the-art factory (FN Manufacturing) as the rifles and machine guns used by American's Armed Forces. They are made to the exact ISO 9001 standard of quality that the U.S. Government insists upon for military firearms.

For 2008 the new Model 70 has the all new M.O.A.™ Trigger System, improved fit and finish and enhanced accuracy to go along with its classic Pre-64 Controlled Round Feeding, Three-Position safety and solid, sure handling.

M.O.A.™ Trigger System. The new Model 70 M.O.A.Trigger System is the most precise three-lever trigger system ever offered to sportsmen. Operating on a simple pivoting lever principle, the trigger mechanism has been completely redesigned to exhibit zero take up, zero creep and zero overtravel. The pull weight ranges from 3 to 5 pounds and is factory-set at 3 3/4 pounds. Because of the enhanced ergonomics, wide smooth triggerpiece and 2:1 mechanical advantage created by the unique design geometry, it actually feels like half that weight.

Three-Position Safety. The improved three-position safety on the new Model 70 has proven effective and highly popular with hunters and shooters for decades. Convenient to operate with the thumb of the firing hand, the Model 70 safety lifts the firing pin away from the sear. Then the safety selector is in the middle position, the action can still be operated, allowing unfired cartridges to be cycled with the safety on.

Hammer-Forged Barrel. Model 70 barrels are cold hammer-forged from a solid billet of steel for accuracy and long life. Massive rotary hammers shape the barrel steel around a mandrel to create the rifling. The barrel is threaded, target crowned and installed on the receiver. The chamber is then reamed and the bolt is headspaced. This results in 1 MOA accuracy for three-shot groups using properly managed barrel, quality match ammo and superior optics under ideal weather and range conditions.

Blade-Type Ejector. The Model 70's blade-type ejector allows full control when ejecting a fired case. When pulling the bolt back slowly the empty case pops out gently, which is perfect for target shooters and varminters. Pulling the bolt back smartly allows the empty case to clear the port with greater force. The blade-type ejector helps to eliminate short-stroking malfunctions.

The new Winchester Model 70 will be offered in a Super Grade, Featherweight™ Deluxe, Sporter Deluxe and Extreme Weather SS models for 2008. All will feature a thick black Pachmayr® Decelerator® pad that will help take the bite out of recoil.

The Super Grade will be offered in 30-06 Sprg. and 300 Win. Mag and will feature a fancy grade walnut stock with contrasting black fore-end tip and pistol grip cap and a sculpted shadowline cheekpiece. Suggested Retail $1,149.00

The Featherweight Deluxe has an angled comb walnut stock with Schnabel fore-end and satin finish with elegant cut checkering. It will be offered in popular long and short action calibers, including WSM chamberings. Suggested Retail $999.00 to $1,049.00.

The Sporter Deluxe features a satin finished walnut stock with cut checkering on trim fore-end and pistol grip, along with a sculpted cheekpiece. Available in popular long action and short action WSM calibers. Suggested Retail $999.00 to $1,049,99.

The Extreme Weather SS's premium Bell and Carlson composite stock features a trim, light feel with textured matte surface that gives a sure grip in any conditions. The Extreme Weather SS has a free floating, fluted stainless barrel to help minimize weight. Available in popular long action and short action WSM calibers. Suggested Retail $1,149.00 tp $1,199.00. Delivery on all models will begin in June of 2008.

[Questor]

Ho hum. I can get better guns for less today. Maybe the controlled round feeding will appeal to the few people who want a dangerous game rifle. If they had had those features twenty years ago, they might still be competitive.

[SHOOTALL]

if the scope mounts were made on the rifle it would be a RUGER !

[beemanbeme]

It'll be interesting to see how many of the folks that have been lamenting the demise of the pre-64 rush out to order one or two.  Folks have complained about the loss of quality with the Rems and I said if they did the things to enhance the fit and finish AND added a couple or three hundred bucks to the price, would you pay it?  Most said no.  They just want to whine.  Look at all the post about the Icon being too expensive.  I think the new model 70 will appeal to a niche market but not a large enough market to let it survive.

[mudstud]

Shootall,  You're a funny guy!    full of beans, but funny nonetheless!   Any similarities between a Rugger and a pre-64 Model 70 or a Classic are superficial!   

Questor, is there any rifle about which you have anything nice to say, except for the T3?      Is that what you meant by a better gun for less money?  LMAO!!

beemanbeme, the Icon IS too expensive, for a turkey!!   

OK, guys, no need to get defensive, I'm just having some fun here!!   

FWIW, I am eagerly anticipating the new SC Model 70, and fully expect to add several to my battery, or collection, or accumulation of rifles, or whatever it is you can call it.  I have no idea if the new SC Model 70 will survive in the long run, I hope it will, but if it doesn't, it probably won't be because of any lack of support on my part.  I am, however, a bit apprehensive about a new trigger.  The "old" trigger was absolutely the best trigger design for a hunting rifle ever.  Any thought of a new design, makes me suspect lawyers might be involved!  Carry on!       

[Slamfire]

  Winchester had the most elegant trigger ever designed on the Model 70, simple and trouble free. Now you have to pay for some 3 lever complicated, competition trigger on a hunting rifle.

[jvs]

If the reintroduction of the M-70 means that they will be produced to ISO standards, they MAY be worth the price.   But if the claim is they are produced at a factory that makes arms for the Military under ISO standards, nothing changes and the claim means nothing.  That description is written so the reader can assume the rifles may be made to ISO practices.  Actually, it doesn't say such.  All it says is the rifles will be manufactured at a factory that produces arms for the Military under ISO guidelines.  The announcement does not specifically say the M-70 will go thru the same inspection process and Quality Control practices as the Military Arms do.

I always wanted another Featherweight, but when the MSRP gets up around $1,000, I will be thinking twice.  Unless it is an ISO rifle.

If somebody can clear that up, I may be a buyer.  Other than that, I won't be a $1,000 Gambler.  There are other well made rifles out there that cost alot less and are just as effective.  I can even buy a Pre 64, in good condition, for less than that.

[Old English]

I know nothing about these rifles and at $1k a piece, probably never will. I have a little experience with  ISO 9001 though. All ISO does is track that procedures are in place and documented basically. Having ISO 9001 certification is no guarantee of product quality. I work in the sewing industry and see factories all over the world, I doubt that it's any different in a firearms factory. ISO 9001 = paperwork not a good rifle....IMHO

[SHOOTALL]

mudstud , hows that ?
the Ruger was closer to the pre 64 than the post 64 was to it ! The Ruger was an effort to produce a pre 64 with improvements at a reasonable price , which it did !

[Questor]

Now that Ruger is starting to use good triggers, their guns are looking much more attractive than ever to me. They are well made and cosmetically beautiful, I just never liked the triggers on them. I'll be taking a look at them when the new rifles with good triggers hit the market.

Somebody said I don't like anything but the T3. That's not quite right. We just got a T3 and I'm enfatuated with it. It's a heck of a value and, yes, the pre-64 model 70s do look pretty shabby when compared to it. At least for our purposes.  Accurate, smooth, holds zero, great ergonomics, stainless, synthetic. Wow! Everything I could want in a rifle in .308.

One thing about the pre-64 model 70s that is often forgotten is that so many of the troubleshooting techniques that have become standard for rifles were developed to eliminate problems with the 70s. So some of us look back with rose colored glasses.

Today's guns like the CZs, Tikkas, now hopefully the Rugers, some of the Remington 700s,  some of the Weatherbys, and some of the Savages are stunningly good values at far less than $1000.

If Winchester intends to compete with the makers of $1000 rifles they're going to have to produce something of tremendous quality and value. The other guys have a big head start and they're doing superb things. Personally, if I wanted controlled round feed rifle in that price point, I'd look no farther than the stunningly excellent Kimbers.

An interesting personal note on my reaction to the original post was "I wonder how they've figured out how to cheapen it further?"

By the way, I checked the Winchester guns web site and there is no press release to the effect that the model 70 is back.

[Rogue Ram]

The action itself has never gone away. The FN Patrol Rifle, etc., and that whole family of rifles has the exact same action with variations on the feeding and extraction. There is about to be another entry into the field soon with both push and controlled round feed coming from a new maker.    Be prepared to be confused as ever.  If the 70 does come back it will have some stiff competition.

RR

[SuperstitionCoues]

What site did you find it at?  The link would help.  Right now all this is, is an elaborate unsubstantiated rumor.

When I see news of this in Lexis Nexis, Browning, Winchester or FN's website, then I will take it seriously.




OK, I found it.
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/tow_release.php?ID=122642&session=#%23%23session%23%23%23
I think it's odd it isn't showing up as a press release on the Wnchester website. though.


Let's wait and see what happens.


Now I'm thinking it's on the level...

http://www.howardcommunications.com/winchester_firearms_news/Winchester%20Model%2070.html

[Mac11700]

Suggested retail is $999.00 to $1,049.00.

I've only seen a few that actually sold for the MSRP...there is no reason to believe these will either...Them making them again is a good thing...provided they fit the hype...

It's a heck of a value and, yes, the pre-64 model 70s do look pretty shabby when compared to it. At least for our purposes.

While the T3 may be a nice rifle...they don't hold a candle to any pre-64 I have ever owned...and to be totally honest...to me...they don't even hold a candle to most of the post 64's I've owned either..notice I did say most...not all...

Mac

[Questor]

Mac11700:

Obviously we see rifles differently. What criteria do you use to consider the model 70s as good as they are? What really stands out in your mind as making the 70s as good as they are? We'll never agree on which rifle is better, but I've honestly compared rifles using my own criteria for what makes a good rifle and clearly it's not based on the same set of values you use.  Flipping the question around, what makes the T3s less desirable to you?

My values are moderate cost, synthetic stock, stainless steel construction, smooth reliable operation, excellent trigger, good ergonomics and overall shooting qualities, light weight, good recoil distribution, weight distribution that facilitates a steady hold, no gunsmithing needed on a new gun, and the ability to hold a zero regardless of weather. Specific negatives in a rifle include wooden stocks. Durability is of little concern as long as the service life exceeds 10 years of moderate shooting.

[SHOOTALL]

Winchester is like a wife , when they walk out and leave after years of little satisfaction its hard to want them back !

[The Gamemaster]

Let's look at this backwards.

Winchester - after years of troubles goes out of business.

Now you have a company that bought the name and the copy-write.

Since this company already made firearms, it was a easy fix to convert their production line to manufacture a all new Winchester firearm.

You take what they had and you take what you have and you put the two together and what do you have?  A gun that sold two years ago for $500, now being sold for $1100.00

Their article said that it would have 1 MOA

It did not say if the MOA is at 100 yards, 50 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards.  It just said that it would have 1 MOA - as long as you used a premium scope.

I have a Remington Gamemaster that has a cheap $100 Simmons scope on it that will shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 yards!  Do you mean to tell me that my rifle is worth more than their rifle - since it is twice as accurate?

It looks to me like just a bunch of hog manure, put in a new brown bag.  When you open it up, it will still be hog manure.

[SHOOTALL]

have you priced your outfit lately ?
might be worth more !

[beemanbeme]

Synthetic stock....Eeeeeooowwwww !!!!   Stainless Steel.... double Eeeeeeooooowwwww!!!

[SuperstitionCoues]

Ya know what?  I just can't see paying $1200 for what I paid $600-700 for in 2002 and 2004.   Whoever came up with that marketing scheme?   That's just plain nuts!

[jvs]

Ya know what?  I just can't see paying $1200 for what I paid $600-700 for in 2002 and 2004.   Whoever came up with that marketing scheme?   That's just plain nuts!

You might want to get ready to do just that.

With the price of Oil going up, the price of all Parts, Transporting and Manufacturing is also going up.  Most Truckers are now paying around $3 per gallon of diesel fuel, and since the best mileage they can get is somewhere around 4 mpg fully loaded, costs will add up quickly to the end user.

We are already in a mode where most prices will double for everything, and there may come a time when you think that paying the MSRP of $1,000 for a M-70 was a steal.  Winchester might just as well be leading the pack when it comes to pricing.  It may not be an admirable position to be in, but it is realistic.

The days of the price of guns going up $10 or $20 a year are GONE.  Unless you can find anything that doesn't depend on Oil, in one form or another, to get to you.  Even the low end producers will have pricing difficulties when the current inventory is gobbled up.

Unfortunately, this Economy is no longer based on Supply and Demand.  The American economy appears to me to be a case of "what price the market will bear".  GREED

[poncaguy]

I'm  glad I bought 2 Winchester Super Shadows at $400 each. A 270 WSM and a 300WSM, excellent rifles, 1/2"-3/4" groups, good triggers and mild recoil. I like them just as much as my 2 Rugers.

[mudstud]

 

For some odd reason, I get a belly laugh out of listening to all my fellow gunnies squealing like a hog under a gate about the prices of new guns.  The prices of guns are going up in a heckuva hurry right now, and it's life, it's real, and get a grip.  It's called inflation.  I don't hear any body complaining about how the value of their real estate is rising to absurd levels.  The 700 CDL SF goes for $900 to $950, in my neck of the woods, did anyone seriously think the new Model 70 Classics were going to be cheaper?  The Model 70 Classic action itself is much more expensive to manufacture than the tubular push feed 700.  My recommendation is, if there is anything out there right now that you want, and you can find it at anything approaching a reasonable price, jump on it now! 

[Mac11700]

My recommendation is, if there is anything out there right now that you want, and you can find it at anything approaching a reasonable price, jump on it now!

I agree...there are still a bunch of the original Mod 70's available...for a lot less...but...like I said...just because the MSRP is high...doesn't mean the street price will be...

Mac

[Coyote Hunter]

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Winchesters.  Don't care who owns the company (but am pleased FN will be making them), just care about quality of the product, what chamberings are available and what it will cost me.

Will I buy one?  Can't begin to say.  Even if I like them there is no guarantee as I like others, too.  They will be competing for my dollar just like everyone else.  But I'm glad to see the new M70 Winchester will be available if I decide that 's what I want.

[SHOOTALL]

with ammo prices getting higher each week , a $ 1000 .00 rifle might not be the limiting factor !

[jvs]

You can take this for what it is worth.  You can either heed it or you can forget you ever saw it.  Either way, it doesn't bother me.

A few years ago I read something that stated that the future social plan by the Gov't will be against the "Three Evil Sisters".... Tobacco, Firearms and Alcohol.  We all know about what happened so far with Tobacco.  They will eventually Tax it out of existence.  There is a rumbling occuring in some Liberal circles concerning the cost of local gov't picking up the costs of gunshot wounds, so I suppose it won''t be long before the assault on gun prices and ammo start to appear.

Anyway, after I read the article, I started buying extra ammo and picking up every brass casing I found at the range.  I also bought reloading components.   Not because I needed it, but because I don't want to pay any extra surcharges in the future. 

If you start adding in the higher transportation and HAZMAT fees, you can see that prices on just about everything, including firearms, are up to stay.  Transportation costs may go down a little, but not much, and you won't see any savings being passed on to you. 

As it may take a while before the Gov't moves on Firearms and Ammo with such surcharges, it is not impossible that shooting may eventually cost you $1.50 or $2.00 a shot or more.  Even for the common calibers, much more for the exotic (ultra-doodad) stuff.

I hate giving advice on this sort of thing, but if you want to heed this warning, then I would be buying an extra box of factory ammo, or a package of reloading components, or powder everytime you get the chance, even if you don't need it.

As far as a $1000 price tag on a new rifle, I have long expected that to happen, and I don't think it will be long before $1000 is considered 'cheap'.  Anything that would be worthwhile having will soon be in that price catagory.  Even if the price doesn't exactly hit $1000, it will not be very far from it.  And if Inflation raises its head, as it supposed to, $1000 will be a distant memory.  It would almost be like me saying I paid $69 for my first new Marlin, when I started my collection with something I could afford.

I may be in the market for a new Featherweight, but I would be particular as to what caliber it is.  I have always considered the Featherweight to be the 'prettiest' rifle on the market.  I already own one and I will not buy any another rifle before I sell a rifle from the cabinet.  And of course, a caliber I am already stocked up for.

 

[robert4570]

They can call it a Winchester but the fact is the Conn plant is closed . That new "M-70" is an FN thats all.
Sad to say but the name  alone wont make it a Winchester . Soon they be like Browning out sourcing 100% of its production. Corporate America just doesnt get it . 

[Guy Pike]

I am reminded of "New" Coke.

[mudstud]

FN owned the old Connecticut plant too, since FN owned USRA.  All of Winchester/USRA/Browning/FN is owned by Herstal.  It doesn't make a tinkers damn which arm of this conglomerate "owns" what.  If any of this bothers you, don't buy one.  The new Model 70 is still American made.  And, yes, I think the $1000 mark may be the new standard for a production rifle, at least for awhile, until they go up from there!!  Get a grip!