Author Topic: .410 for Girlfriend (Read 1988 times)

singleVI · « **on:** September 09, 2007, 11:13:38 AM »

I'm thinking about getting my girlfriend a shotgun for her birthday in November. Shes recoil shy so I thought about .410 or 28 gauge. The only reasonably priced 28 i can find is an H&R topper. Or a Mossberg 500 .410. Which would be better for shooting some clays/dove? I'm trying to get her started wingshooting and she didn't really like the kick of my 20ga 870. Also which ammo would be easier to find and cost less? Is the Mossberg 500 pretty dependable?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2007, 11:48:26 AM »

Do you and her both a favor and get a 28 gauge not a .410. The .410 IS NOT a beginner's gun it is an expert's gun. If you really want her to learn to become a wingshooter get her the 28 gauge. And dang it don't scrimp get a good one. Remington makes a pump and semiauto 28 gauge and I'd suggest getting one of those if you really want her to learn. I think Browning also makes their BPS in 28 gauge and it too would be an excellent choice.

While .410 ammo is a bit easier to find the price is the same as for the 28 at least around here and Wal-Marts usually have some on the shelves and any gun store can get it for you or you can order it yourself. I've paid anywhere from a low of $55 per 250 rounds to a high of as much as $100 for 250 rounds of both .410 and 28 gauge shells this year to support my skeet shooting habit. I shoot both guns about equally at skeet and average low 90s with both. I'll use the 20 rarely and the 12 almost never so the two small guns see at least 90% of my use in about equally divided percentages. I used only the 28 last month and will be using only the .410 this month.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2007, 01:10:03 PM »

Don't get her the .410, it will only frustrate her because she won't be hitting much. Assuming she's under about 5 and a half feet tall, I suggest you take a good look at the Mossberg Bantam pump gun in 20 gauge. The key to making a 20 gauge user friendly is to get light target loads. I use light target loads and taught both my kids to shoot with it, and my wife enjoys shooting it too. The reason for the Bantam, which is marketed as a youth gun, is that it fits smaller people. My full size shotgun is simply too big for my wife.

Another important thing in using the 20 gauge, or any other gauge, is that the new shooter must absolutely understand and apply the following: The gun must fit snugly into the shoulder, and the cheek must be snug on the stock. If either of those don't happen, then the user will perceive harsh recoil. JUst be patient and make sure she applies this lesson and understands why it's important. The first shot my son fired with the Bantam was a good one. He heeded the lesson. His second shot, he didn't heed the lesson and started crying and wanted to go home. I told him why he got hurt. Insisted that he take just two more shots, but with correct form, and he did alright. Next session he was comfortable with the gun.

Back to the Mossberg: It's one of the best deals int he shooting world. You don't get a chromed bore or fancy cosmetics, but you get a superb gun for the money. Tang safety, tapped for a Weaver scope mount if deer hunting is in the future (ours gets great accuracy with the 2 3/4" Rottweil slugs and poor accuracy with Federals). Nice fit for people of short stature.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2007, 05:08:41 PM »

If she's recoil sensitive only reloads will work in a light 20 gauge. I can't even stand the factory loads in my Browning 20 ga O/U. Two rounds of them and my shoulder aches for days. I use reloads with 3/4 oz at 1125 fps in mine. Target loads of 7/8 at 1200 are more than my shoulder wants these days. Granted I'm long over due for surgery on it but am planning on seeing if it will outlast me.

Questor · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2007, 05:13:25 PM »

GB:

You're sure right about picking the right loads. I load my own low recoil 7/8 ounce + Unique + Win AA hull + Remington wad load that feels more like a vibration than recoil. I did have good luck with Winchester low cost 3/4 ounce 20 gauge loads. Recoil felt OK with those. Must be something about the gun though. We shoot factory ammo and it's really not bad, even slugs. Our guns are the Mossberg Bantam and the Beretta Silver Pigeon.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2007, 06:17:05 PM »

The Federal factory target loads just plain hurt my shoulder with my Browning Citori 20 the Remington Gun Club loads aren't as bad but I much prefer my light loads. I have two cases of Winchester AA HS target loads and about a half case of the Federal stuff left to shoot up and I dred doing it. My shoulder isn't gonna like me after a box or two of them.

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:48:45 AM »

I wonder what the difference is between our two guns. I haven't shot anything in mine that I'd characterize as hard kicking, even slugs. Slugs kick quite a bit in the Mossberg, especially the 3" magnums, but it's still tolerable for my son to shoot effectively.

Interesting Citroi note. I asked my son his impression of the 12 gauge Citori and he didn't like it. He said it felt too light and he couldn't get the barrels stabilized on the target. I didn't shoot that gun, but I thought it was an interesting insight from him. The gun was a 30" barrelled gun used for trap.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:52:54 AM »

The Citori is about a pound heavier than comparable Beretta's I think at least a half pound minimum. The real difference tho is my shoulder. I need rotator cuff surgery in the worst way and the shoulder just cannot deal with much recoil. Even one ounce loads in a 12 is brutal on my shoulder. That's why I commented that recoil sensitive folks shouldn't use a light 20 with even light target loads. For most folks it's no problem but when you've worn out your body as I have mine it does matter.

singleVI · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2007, 10:25:46 AM »

I forgot to mention the shes left handed. With the Mossberg pump would the ejected shells get thrown in her face or shoulder area? She is my size 5'5'' 125lbs. How much difference in recoil between the 20ga Mossberg and an H&R single Shot 20? We'd shoot mostly the bulk ammo from walmart. Winchester/Federal/Remington 100rds/16bucks. My 870 fits me just right and the recoil isn't bad at all. I can shoot it so long my trigger finger hurts.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2007, 10:57:19 AM »

check out some of the less expensive imports in 28 ga or a 870 in 28 ga.
another option is a 1100 in 20 very soft kicker

Questor · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2007, 11:15:01 AM »

SingleVI:

My son is left handed the Mossberg is fine. It has a tang safety, which is a big plus for lefties. There were never any issues for usability or awkward hull ejection. It has a decent recoil pad on it. At 5'5" She's marginal for the shooting the Bantam vs. the full size. If a full size gun fits her, then the Bantam is too small.

Walmart and some of the other discounters often sell a bargain load from Winchester that has a smaller shot charge. I believe it's 3/4 ounce in 20 gauge. We tried it once and it was pretty good. It was in a white box.

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2007, 11:28:24 AM »

Being a lefty does add complications to the issue. The bottom ejection of the Browning BPS would raise it higher in consideration in that case I think. I'm not at all sure where the safety is on it tho as I don't think I've ever shouldered one even tho I have seen them at the gun store and a young boy at the range shoots with one I've just not paid much attention to them.

Remington makes some left handed guns more than anyone else I guess really but I'm not sure if they make one in either 1100 or 870 in the 20 and under gauges. If so I'd look strongly at those. But the real best choice for a lefty is an O/U to me.

I'd forget the idea of that single barrel completely. The trigger pull is ridiculous on them and they just don't really have the lines and feel for proper wing shooting. If she's not worth more than that then just don't bother at all.

dukkillr · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2007, 12:38:32 PM »

GB called it. Get a BPS, top mounted safety, bottom eject. More reliable, and simply a better product than a Mossberg. I wouldn't get a 410 or a 28 ga for two reasons; 1) price of shells, and 2) frustration of the limited power. It's easy to become frustrated when you're learning to shoot, and the small patterns of those two makes the experience very unrewarding. If you're really concerned about recoil maybe try an auto... and 1100 or if price is no issue, a benelli.

My wife is average height with a slight build and she has no issue shooting her Benelli SBEII in 12ga. She even shoots the 3" turkey loads. I think more than anything it takes getting used to it, and having some success. Like most people, if she had shot 2-3 out of 25 with a .410 she might have just quit. Even with the increased recoil of a 12 she could hit 15 and enjoying that success caused her to take more interest in the sport.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:27:00 PM »

dukkillr you must not have much experience with the 28 gauge or you'd not have made that comment. Besides the size of pattern is controlled by choke NOT gauge. The 28 gauge is a highly efficent gauge and in my mind the very best there is for a beginner. The .410 is an experts gun.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2007, 02:35:57 AM »

Make no mistake the 28 will hold its own on any quail or dove hunt , i have also taken chukka and pheasant with one !
as far as shells if you compare to good 20 or 12 ga. shells the price is not that much higher but against the promo shells they do cost more , but you would buy your lady good shells ? RIGHT ! The 410 is ok in range but it has such a limited range , when you start out with such few shot it takes a very short distance to get holes in the pattern ! faster than a beginner can take a shot on fleeing game . something should be mentioned , a piece of shot leaving the bbl. of a shot gun has no idea what ga the gun is . 1200 fps is 1200 fps ! the only difference is amount of shot , choke and shot column in the simplest terms ! the 28 and 20 both shoot some of the same payloads , my experience has been up close the 20 having a shorter shot column seems to open the pattern faster all other things being the same ! a change of choke may change the out come . I shot a model 12 28 for about 15 years , i have been shooting 28 ga little skeeters in my 20 ga browning O/U for the past 2 . been deciding on tubes or 28 ga O/U , miss the light weight of the 28 so think it will be a gun , not tubes .

moxgrove · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:28:28 AM »

I agree the 28 ga. is a really surprising performer. It is much closer to the 20 ga than the .410. I have been lusting over a nice sxs 28 foe a while. I love the lively feel of the light weight with 28 inch barrels. I also see the 410 as a gun for when you are looking for a challenge.

Questor · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:53:32 AM »

I like the versatility of the 20. Light loads for a 20 are about the same as normal loads for a 28. But if I want to go deer hunting or duck hunting, I can do that with the 20, but not with the 28. I think the 20 gauge is the perfect game gun for shots out to about 30 yards with Improved cylinder, 35 yards with modified, and 40 with full.

I belive the 28 becomes more compelling as one considers a side-by-side shotgun because that's the point at which they become comfortable to easily carry.

One further opinion about the 20 is that if the 20 seems like it has too much recoil, the 28 probably does too.

singleVI · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2007, 05:22:01 AM »

Well Id like to buy her a top dollar double but that just isnt gonna happen cuz I dont have the money. I am looking for the best, cheapest gun I can find that she can hunt squirrel, rabbit and dove with. I use two kinds of shells, highbrass 5/6s for pheasant and walmart bulk ammo for everything else. Seems to work so far. A Mossberg 500 is about as much as i can spend. I have in my safe a Browning BPS 12ga that was spray-painted camo and I'm in the process of removing it. It almost doesnt fit me and wouldnt fit her. Plus it being a 12ga she wouldnt enjoy the recoil. The top mounted safety is a real plus and was the deciding factor between the Mossb. and a H&R Topper pump. I checked out the single shot H&R at wally world and didnt think is was all that bad.
BTW has anyone seen the new 870s at walmart that have such aggressive lines on the barrel rib that they look like rasps? I noticed it and i didn't like it at all. Looked very sloppy and cheap...

Questor · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2007, 05:44:02 AM »

SingleVI:

I don't think you can go wrong with the Mossberg, given the budget. We have been completely happy with ours.

When I was first shopping for shotguns everybody told me how good the Remington 870 was and the first examples of it were the bargain models like you describe. It looked like it had been spray painted by a ten year old vandal. I got a very bad impression from that. Then I saw the Wingmaster model, which is the one most people praise, and I really liked it a lot. It's a super gun. One of the best. And I think it may be available in left hand.

james · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2007, 06:15:47 AM »

You have received some excellent advice but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I just got back from a 4-H shooting instructor's class and the coaches and instructor's there were very high on a Mossberg OU in 20 or 28 ga. The gun is safe, ambidextrious friendly, and cheap for an over-under. Still around $400 at Walmart. It doesn't require long arms to work the action and the barrel weight lessens the felt recoil. The down side is it probably won't stand up to thousands of rounds but it would make an excellent entry level gun. For hunting, the two barrels allow you to have the correct choke, no matter if the game is 15 or 40 yards. Watch for used guns and you can get more for your money. Good luck.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2007, 09:23:32 AM »

For deer hunting try 28 ga slugs , the 410 has both slugs and buck shot !

Questor · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2007, 05:22:18 AM »

I didn't know there was factory ammo for 28 gauge slugs. (or do slugs require hand loading for 28ga?)

I dunno about the 28 gauge in this case. "28 gauge" and "low budget" just seem mutually exclusive to me.

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2007, 05:25:18 AM »

Pretty much true Rudy, pretty much true. Unless of course one reloads. But around here and for most all mail order places .410s cost as much as 28 gauge ammo. Guns of course are same in both. For sure if economy is the main consideration 20 and 12 is the way to go but then you're back into the recoil issue he is trying to avoid.

singleVI · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2007, 06:05:04 AM »

Well after checking out walmart after work I learned that they sell the Mossberg 500 20 ga alot cheaper than I expected so I'm going to go with that. If recoil is a problem, Ill get a slip-on recoil pad. BTW, the barrel is ported. Will this do anything for recoil or loudness?

moxgrove · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2007, 06:34:00 AM »

It does help recoil. It makes it quicker to get back on target for follow up shots. I have a Breda o/u that's ported for sporting clays and I don't know if I feel it any less in the shoulder, but it doesn't rise as much from my swing line. I really don't notice recoil when shooting at moving targets, just still ones.
Porting does make it louder, but that's why we wear hearing protection, right? I have found that blast has as much effect on new shooters as actual recoil on new shooters I've worked with. I would recommend maybe even using soft plugs and muffs at first for her.

singleVI · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2007, 12:53:40 PM »

I always use ear protection except when hunting. When Im hunting with a center-fire rifle on the other hand I use them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2007, 02:21:49 AM »

Benike (sp) makes them or used to , why some one hasn't come up with a rifled bbl for it is a opportunity , a 28ga bolt action slug gun , carry like and shoot like a rifle !

spinafish · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2007, 03:24:58 AM »

I bought a Browning Pump gun in 28 guage for my sun, who is right handed but left eye dominate. The safety is on the top and it ejects from the bottom just like the old Ithaca 37. I also have a Rem.1100 in 28 gauge that is a darling to shoot. I have pretty much lost this one to my wife!

I noticed that Winchester is loading LITE ammo for the 20 and 12 gauge that should be the cat's meow for folks like your girlfriend.http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotlist.aspx?bn=18&use=21

singleVI · « **Reply #28 on:** September 17, 2007, 08:25:08 AM »

Well got her a gun. Stopped by walmart after work and bought her a Mossberg 500 20 gauge. I had one when i was younger then moved to an 870. They're nicer guns than I remembered. It came with improved, modified and full chokes. Remington didn't do that with my 870. Now I have to wait for November to give it to her. Shucks...