Ok, do I get D-2 or VG-10 steel....?

[kyelkhunter3006]

Ok, this about the post for the AG Russell Deer Hunter and Bird/Trout series.  I've decided to buy one of each, cause I can't decide which I like better, so I figured, why bother with making that decision....   Anyway, which steel do you guys think I should get?  I've never used D-2 or VG-10 before, so I want to know what I'm getting into with them. 

The knives will mostly be used for camp chores and field dressing game, occasionally being used around lakes and streams while fishing.  Not used for cleaning fish really, just a constant companion and cutting bait, cause I might as well be walking around naked if I'm not carrying a knife (or 2 or 3).  They might get a dunking in the water while canoeing, or if I go in after a big fish or a lost rod(yep, done it a couple of times).  They will get a lot of use in deer camp, dressing out animals.  My buddy and I end up skinning, dressing and butchering a lot of deer at camp, because we can do 2 or 3 by the time most people get one done. 

So edge holding is paramount, obviously, but that won't be an issue with either steel.  Is one easier to touch up than the other?  I know that D-2 is famous for its toughness, but I'm slightly concerned about the knives being around the water and rusting if not immediately wiped down.   I live in KY, so saltwater exposure definitely isn't going to be an issue, unless I take a trip to the coast.

[lik2hunt]

I don't have either type....yet, but from what I've researched I think the VG-10 would be less likey to rust, but D-2 might be a lot tougher.

[Joel]

I've never used VG-10, but a couple of people I trust like it.  It's not a super steel; just holds a good edge.  I make a lot of knives out of D-2, and own a couple. It will rust if it gets wet, or is stored for any length of time in a wet sheath; not as quickly as unprotected carbon steel but still after a bit rust appears.  The rougher the blade polish(the more open the pores are) the faster it rusts.  I wax mine, and that helps quite a bit. D-2 holds an excellent edge if it's properly heat treated, but the couple of factory knives I've tried in that steel don't really impress me much,i.e. Queen and Ka-bar.  They're not bad, but not up to what a good custom heat treater can do with the steel. As such, to me there is no difference in edge holding between the two if going with factory made blades.  If you're at all concerned with blade maintenance and rust, I suspect the VG-10 will remove that concern.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I am concerned about rust, but I take a lot of pleasure in maintaining my equipment well, so the knife would be wiped down regularly.  I've used a lot of 1095 steel, and none of those knives ever rusted, even the non-coated blades, and I know that D-2 has a much higher chromium content (1095 has none), so it should be less of a concern than the 1095.  I guess what I'm really wondering is with the thin flat ground blades on the knives, would it be a good trade to give up the stainless in order to get the toughness of D-2?  The knives won't be abused, but you never know what you'll suddenly need to use the knife for.

[Joel]

If you're going with thin, flatground blades of 1/8 inch or less, it doesn't matter which of the steels you use; especially if you get a knife with a lot of distal taper to it.  Both blades are too flexible to have much brute prying strength.  I know; all my knives are built from either 3/32 or 1/8 inch steel and, while on the average they will flex around 30 degrees, there's not a lot of serious stiffness to them.  Personally, if you are looking for a really tough steel with a good edge, and don't mind maintenance, perhaps A-2 might be more  suitable. In my own rather long 50 years plus experience with knives in a lot of different situations, I've only broken one blade trying to pry with it, and that was a Gerber AR 3.0 in 440A.  I have, when I was younger especially, snapped a few tips off blades doing the old makeshift screwdriver trick.  My point is when you stop considering a knife to be a cutting tool and  start worrying about it's ability to act like a prybar or a hammer, you end up compromising a lot.  I tend to use small saplings for prybars and digging sticks, and rocks or chunks of thicker fallen branches for hammers, rather than my knife, but there are a large number of people who seem to consider a knife should be suitable for those tasks, plus cutting, also.   

[patrickjames]

I think D-2 would be my choice for a skinning knife. IMO a lot of the big name makers like Dozier,Gene Ingram and May use mainly D-2. I do have a Spyderco fixed blade Temperance thats very,very sharp. My Dozier knives are great knives and seem to be fairly rust resistance. They also stay sharp a long time.

[kyelkhunter3006]

After read A LOT on the net regarding various steels, I'm going with the D-2.  One website that I was on actually had a comparison of all of the knife steels in use today.  Very interesting reading.  It had cutting/slicing comparisons, chopping and impact testing, edge holding, and ease of sharpening, among others.  D-2 was very highly recommended.  It actually had a test comparing the AG Russell knives in all three steels--  D-2, VG-10, and AUS-8A.  The VG-10 blade cut approx. 50% more than the AUS-8A.  The D-2 cut more than twice the amount of the VG-10!  A couple of other sites thought highly of D-2 as well.  Surprisingly, VG-10 was not very highly recommended at all unless you need a lot of corrosion resistance.  Everything that I read really opened my eyes to the high carbon "tool" steels, regarding their performance.  I used to think that stainless was the only way, but as I have used more knives made of carbon steels, I began to realize that most of them can really outperform the stainless alloys, as long as you take a little time to maintain them.  Of the stainless steels, 154CM was rated pretty well, along with the some of the higher priced stainless alloys, but good 'ole 440C did right well too.

[Joel]

Glad you found your steel. D-2 is nice; depending on who makes the knife. My experience with carbon and stainless steels is a bit different in that the carbon blades I own in 0-1, 52100, A-2, 1095 and 1084 are are excellent steels for the most part(1095 is mediocore), but don't compare to PROPERLY heat treated, cryogenically processed custom knives in such steels as D-2, 154CM/Ats-34, BG-42, S-30V, and some of the others that I haven't tried yet(ZDP-189, S-60, S-90 etc).  I can't think of a stainless steel factory knife out there that receives the proper heat treat those steels require. There may be some, but I haven't been fortunate enough to find one; but then I haven't tried every factory brand out there.  To an extant I depend on my own working knowledge of steels to look at the specs I see in the advertisement, plus what I read at the forums I go to when looking at knives.  A quick personal example are my Queen Mountain Man in D-2 and Spyderco Native in S-30V.  Both are average cutters as produced by the factories, but don't come close to the blades I make from those steels and send to D'Holder for HT. The problem of course is cost.  Stainless is not only more expensive, it's much more expensive to properly HT. When factories choose a stainless, they often choose one that is cheap and then throw a halfassed HT on it.You would think that Buck knives, who use Paul Bos to do their HT would be the greatest knives on the planet; Bos being the guru of heat treating.  The poor guy does his best to wring half decent performance out of that 420HC that Buck uses for most of their knives.  When they do choose a decent steel, they then cut corners on the HT.  The truth is those steels gained their reputations from their use in custom blades, not factory knives.  As usual, the factories waited until the word was out about them  in the form of custom blades before offering "their versions". D-2 gained its well deserved reputation based on the knives of Bob Dozier; not Buck, Case, Schrade, CRKT etc.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Bob Dozier makes some fine knives for sure.  One of them is definitely in my future.  Thanks for your help!