Author Topic: starting a business (Read 970 times)

kevin.303 · « **on:** April 07, 2003, 06:04:34 AM »

i'm planning to my gunsmithing papers soon and a buddie of mine came up with the idea that we should go into business together. he don't know much about guns but he is a good machinist. our original idea was to to make gauge reducers and do repair jobs. but i was thinking of building semi custom rifles based on enfields. we would chamber them in select calibers and market them as a alternative for people who can't afford higher priced guns. would this make money? i'd like some feedback from some old hands.

John Traveler · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2003, 08:45:52 AM »

"SIGH"

Kevin,

I really do wish the all the best in your gunsmithing venture.

I don't know what the gunsmithing laws are like in Canada, but here in Stateside, they are DREADFUL!

A licensed gunsmith has to procure product liability insurance to practice his trade. That includes any aspect of working on guns, refinishing, stockwork, accuracy work, ANYTHING!

That alone can kill all incentive to "build inexpensive customized rifles". The federal, state, and local laws make it ever more difficult to have a gun-related business. the Federal Firearms license opens your home and business to law enforcement inspection at any time. The mandatory record keeping is a full-time job alone.

I've spent much of the last 7 years traveling all over Canada in communities large and small, and found that so many gunsmiths have changed employment, retired, or simply quit the gun trades because of the restrictions on gun ownership and the record keeping required. The few gunsmiths that are still available either work for a large, established shop, or are on their own in small towns.

The number of gun shop licenses have decreased from over 600,000 in the early 1980's to fewer than 100,000 in the last couple of years. Most of that from the federal licensing fee increases and restrictions on FFL ownership.

Things are not as bad here and in Canada as in the UK, where you have to have a gunsmithing license to purchase a chambering reamer! The rules can only get worse.

Again, best wishes on your gunsmithing career.

HTH
John

RON KONTOWSKY · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2003, 05:14:32 PM »

All I can say is that is tough and tight right now!
good luck getting started!

R.A.K.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2003, 06:36:46 PM »

I really hate to be discouraging but these guys are probably right.. it's always tough to start a new business and gunsmithing is even worse. The climate has moderated a bit because of the folks in the WhiteHouse (hey, they even say the 2nd Amendment is about individual rights) but you are still heavily regulated and juries don't like gunsmiths when compared to a grieving mother/father. Better get good insurance and some training. Perhaps start out in a part time mode and keep the day job! Oh well, good luck in the new business and if there's anything we can help with we'll sure try!

jhm · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2003, 04:41:54 AM »

Kevin.303: Over the past 40+ years I have been fortunate enough to own one gunshop and be a investor in another, was it good for me yes I would have to say so, It was a wonderful adventure in life met some of the greatest people a man could ask to meet (and yes there was a few of the other hind as well ) but that goes with all business. Now would I do it again in todays climate NO WAY You just have too much to do other than what you want to do to satisfy everybody just so you can have a business you can call (YOU OWN ) the insurance for liability/ theft/ etc. will eat a hole in any kind of profit you might be able to generate, and by the time you figure the hrs. you work on a gun to fix a problem and a fair price to charge you will be getting less then minimum wage for the most part unless you go into a special field of repair. If you are going to do any retail in the business look around your area as the mega-mart in your area whatever the name will be selling the basic products that average gun owner uses to clean and maintain at the same price you have to pay the wholesaller to get it into you business. Anyhow If you do decide to go ahead with it I do trully wish you all the best as it was one of the most enjoyable ventures I went thru in my lifetime.

JIM

kevin.303 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2003, 05:47:55 AM »

my plan was always to do it on a part time basis i don't think there is enough business to do it full time and support my self

HWooldridge · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2003, 10:26:41 AM »

Guys,

Do your comments also apply to the muzzleloading field? I wanted to build, sell and service blackpowder rifles but your comments make me want to open a car repair business instead!

John Traveler · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2003, 11:46:00 AM »

YES, gunsmithing muzzleloaders requires the FFL and gunsmithing license as well as the product liability insurance.

Blackpowder is a low-grade explosive, and requires a license to buy and store if it is not for your own use.

I know it's discouraging, but having the interest, aptitude, and ability to work on guns is simply not enough to make a gun-related business sucessfull.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2003, 01:38:33 PM »

Black powder is classed as a low grade explosive and has shipping and storage requirements. Building and working on muzzle loading weapons does not require an FFL. They can also be shipped through the mail to anyone that can legally own them. Modern weapons must be shipped if sold to an FFL holder when shipped out of state. You can build and sell muzzle loaders with no license but I would strongly advise liability insurrance. If anything muzzle loaders or more inherently dangerous than modern weapons as each time they are loaded the users is in effect a handloader and the propellant itself is more dangerous to handle than modern smokeless.. You would still face massive competion from large manufacturers and and marketers and would have to find a niche market such as high quality or built to specification rifles in order to compete.. That said it could be done and there are people today who build muzzle loading rifles to order and have been for several years. I don't know if it is their only job but they are still working.. good luck and remember for questions regarding the legality of any gunsmithing project or under taking ask BATF at the link below..
http://www.atf.treas.gov/

Paul H · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2003, 03:17:22 PM »

If you want to make it a profitable business, then don't go after the low grade custom market. You'll deal with lots of guys who have great ideas of what they'd like, but no money to fund it, and then the occasional guy who really wants a more exspensive custom, and when he gets your economy model, will complain about how it the fit and finish wasn't what he expected.

To make money, make the best customs available, as there is always seems to be demand from wealthy folks for the best guns money can buy.

m14dan · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2003, 03:31:25 AM »

I am starting up now too. Talk to the local ATF and try to get freindly with them. They are more than willing to help down here in texas for me. also don't even think about not obtaining a lawyer for advice. I have mine setting us up as an LLC right now. You may want to research that and talk to a laywer about the bennefts or drawbacks. I am starting small out of my house. That may or may not be an option for you depending on your local laws. We can do it here in Lubbock anyway. Really pick the brains of the ATF agent near you. If he is worth his paycheck he will be up on all the Local laws and all. Mine has been a big help. Take your time andCYA. It will be fun once you get into it.

jdt48653 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2003, 02:09:53 PM »

and if that ain`t enough,you may have trouble finding enough good enfield actions!