I'm sorry but I have to ask....

[tuxdad]

Before I do, I have to say that this is in no way meant to be offensive to any of you... I just need to ask this, it's bugging the devil outta me !!!

I've been reading on a number of forums as of late about folks wanting more velocity from their rifles...

Why is that ?

This I don't understand because from what all I've read, making hot loads winds up trashing your barrel over time, and with that you have to wind up buying a new barrel when you can use that cash towards buying a new gun or some other goody..

What happened to getting the most accuracy out of your gun ?? In my short time of experience in reloading I've always strived for the best accuracy from a gun, not the most punch..
I've seen quite a few gents that I've shot with who reload that have wound up destoying a  well made and expensive gun, then take it, and trade it in for something else claiming it just wouldn't group the way it used to or plain out wouldn't shoot the groups they wanted... In one case I knew both parties in a such transaction for 44 mag desert eagle.. When the buyer disassembled the gun, a lot of the parts were bulged from the hot loads put thru it, and I do mean hot(6" flame from the muzzle and about the same from the ejector)... Luckily magnum research upheld the warranty and replaced the parts at no charge, but took 3 weeks to get it back...

Again this in no way meant to be offensive... I just would like to know why this sort of thinking is going on, or am I reading this the wrong way??

Tux

[stimpylu32]

Tux

I know what you mean , somethings don't need that much speed , granted i have a few loads that are max and group very well but for the most part , the ones that are much less that max seem to do better as far as over all groups go . most of my .22 cal. 223 , 22-250 ect. do well at 2 to 3 full grains below max . my 270 on the other hand wants all the speed that i can give it just to be happy .

As far as my 45/70 , i load very light mostly to save my sholder from the recoil and only shoot the heavy loads sometimes .

stimpy

[Luckyducker]

I  can't speak for other reloaders but what I percieve from some posts I have read is that the velocity they're getting is below what is to be expected from the particular caliber they are loading for.  I have had this problem with a 243Win that was getting mediocre accuracy and  velocity was running in the low 2500's until I switched to a faster burning powder.  The accuracy tightened up and the velocity went to about 3000 ft/sec.  This is just hypothetical, but say a person is loading for a 300Win Mag and the velocity is about 2850 ft/sec with a 180 grain bullet, do you think he should settle for this because the accuracy is acceptable?  He could probably get near that with a longer barreled 30/06.  So what I am getting at is the load should compare with the cartridge.  Now on the other hand I have read a few people that are unrealistic, that are trying to get magnum velocity out of standard calibers such as loading for 45Colt and trying to shoot at 44Mag velocity.  I think most reloaders research enough from respectable sources to know what can reasonably be expected from their firearms and if they can't or don't maybe they will eventually remove themselves from the gene pool by way of natural attrition, if you get my drift.  It doesn't take very long for stupidity to show itself in this passtime and a lot of times the event is catastrophic enough to encourage the person to seek other forms of entertainment.  

[bigjeepman]

I gotta a secret ...

I do not own a chrony and up to this point, I have not needed one. The velocities the manuals show have generally been higher than most experience in their reloads (I have been told) so I just assume mine are somewhat lower. This isn't upsetting me because I load for the best load and as long as I am getting what I need in accuracy for my area, I am not too concerned what it is doing 500 yds downrange. I live and shoot in hilly, wooded areas.

Do not misunderstand, reloaders that use chronys have a very good reason for it. I love reading about the different velocities they are getting from different loads. All this information is very valuable to many reloaders ... just not quite so important to me. I think we all want the same thing ... for our firearms to be as accurate as possible ... we just go about it in different ways. I only have one "best" load near max and that is in my .243.

[McLernon]

High velocity for example in a 22-250 translates into flatter trajectory and when you are shooting at 350 to 450 yards velocity counts. There is little point in being able to hit a fly with a 22-250 at a 100 yards with a 223 velocity and settle for 25 inches drop at 400 yards. The same applies to windage. The faster you get the bullet to the target the less wind deflection you get. Flat and fast makes it easier to judge both windage and hold-over at long range.

I have a friend who loads his 22-250 to about 3400 fps and it's very accurate at this velocity. A 22-250 should be shooting close to 3800 fps with a 50 gr. bullet.  Usually you can find another 'sweet-spot' at a higher velocity than 3400. When the barrel stops performing it's simple, get a new one and make it stainless or chrome-moly steel if you want good barrel life with high-end loads!!! Another thing is terminal ballistics. Once you get down to about 2000 fps the 50 gr bullet I mentioned will just punch a hole thru a groundhog. You need the velocity to get the bullet to break-up inside the target and thereby transfer the bullet's kinetic energy to the groundhog and get a clean kill. So initial velocity (and ballistic coefficient) can determine the effective range of a rifle for game.

McLernon

[Mac11700]

Every now and then...when you've been reloading as long as I have..and other here have...You'll find a particular load that the accuracy increases when the velocity has been increased...Barrel life is subjective to how you shoot without letting the barrel cool...what type of powders your using..some burn better than others..where your seating your bullets at...how much bullet jump do you have...and just as important..how you clean your barrel...For each it will be different...

Some folks have a need for speed...some don't...some try to find fault with either side...You just have to find what works best for you..and your rifle..Most folks don't like my 2400+fps 45-70 Nosler Partition loads...it's too much for them...but for those willing to...they find one of the most accurate big bore loads going for it...Myself and others choose to use it....We put up with a little more recoil to have a exceedingly accurate load from it..Others can't fathom using it...and that's ok...This isn't a plinking load..it is a hunting load..

Mac

[Rustyinfla]

 I know what you mean and the current trends toward all the short magnums is only making it worse. A hunter walked into a gunshop not long ago at the end of deer season and said to the clerk, I want to trade in this .30-06 on a WSM. I lost three deer this past year. The truth of the matter is that if the guy had used proper shot placement he could have taken anything in the woods with an old thuty thuty. I'll say what I've said before, people today just can't shoot.

  I have a Ruger #1 and a handi in .30-30. For the most part around these swamps where I hunt the .30-30 will do anything the .308 will do. I just got the .308 cause I'd always wanted a #1.

         Rusty <><

[tuxdad]

I  can't speak for other reloaders but what I percieve from some posts I have read is that the velocity they're getting is below what is to be expected from the particular caliber they are loading for.  I have had this problem with a 243Win that was getting mediocre accuracy and  velocity was running in the low 2500's until I switched to a faster burning powder.  The accuracy tightened up and the velocity went to about 3000 ft/sec.  This is just hypothetical, but say a person is loading for a 300Win Mag and the velocity is about 2850 ft/sec with a 180 grain bullet, do you think he should settle for this because the accuracy is acceptable?  He could probably get near that with a longer barreled 30/06.  So what I am getting at is the load should compare with the cartridge.  Now on the other hand I have read a few people that are unrealistic, that are trying to get magnum velocity out of standard calibers such as loading for 45Colt and trying to shoot at 44Mag velocity.  I think most reloaders research enough from respectable sources to know what can reasonably be expected from their firearms and if they can't or don't maybe they will eventually remove themselves from the gene pool by way of natural attrition, if you get my drift.  It doesn't take very long for stupidity to show itself in this passtime and a lot of times the event is catastrophic enough to encourage the person to seek other forms of entertainment.  

I understand what you're saying about velocity and all, but in the case of the threads I've read, there was NO mention of accuracy whatsoever.. Only the mention of wanting to get more energy downrange, or getting the supposed velocity, that was advertised about the gun ...

I do agree that most folks do research on the round, but then there's those that have no clue or good sense about what they're doing.. In all actuality I think folks need to seek a mentor of some sort like in some of the long range shooting competitions to get a tleast a clue as to what they're doing.. I'm just glad that was lucky enough to have a good bunch of gents that were willing to sit down and help me with any questions that I had, or have...
I think if there were more folks to take the steps learn and ask questions that it'd save a few lives as well as maybe keep a few folks outta the ER..

Tux

[tuxdad]

Thanks for your inputs all... In all your inputs there was the mention of accuracy, as I mentioned before... I just didn't understand what the big deal was with getting the velocity, without mention of getting the accuracy.. In the loads I've made for my rifles as well as a few of my friends that they were on the minimum side of the load scale... Now these were not chrony'd but I can say the recoil was quite acceptable, and the accuracy was excellent...

Of course now I know each gun is different, as well as each shooter, but I was always been taught to get the most out of your gun, by doing your best and finding the best ammo for the job(meaning accuracy) ,,

Thanks again for your inputs...

Tux

[McLernon]

My point is that accuracy has more to do with it than making one hole groups.

McLernon

[Sourdough]

I used to not care about velocity, I was only looking for the most accurate load.  Then a few years ago I started shooting at longer ranges, and discovered that my favorite loads were not capable of reaching the target.  So I then started looking for accurate loads with higher velocities.  It takes some work, but they can be found.  When you are using a range finding scope you must be able to reach the velocity the scope is designed for.  Sometimes that is a pretty high velocity, like factory ammo.  I now use a chrony and faster burning powders.   

[tuxdad]

My point is that accuracy has more to do with it than making one hole groups.

McLernon

Forgive me but what is more important than the accuracy?? I mean if you make a round thats at the velocity you want, but makes a grouping that are @ 2-4"(for example), you still have no idea where that bullet's gonna hit if a long shot of say 500 yds, right?? Wouldn't the groups be larger as you get out further??

[tuxdad]

I used to not care about velocity, I was only looking for the most accurate load.  Then a few years ago I started shooting at longer ranges, and discovered that my favorite loads were not capable of reaching the target.  So I then started looking for accurate loads with higher velocities.  It takes some work, but they can be found.  When you are using a range finding scope you must be able to reach the velocity the scope is designed for.  Sometimes that is a pretty high velocity, like factory ammo.  I now use a chrony and faster burning powders.   

Ok I get it in your case, went to a faster burning powder... Thst I can see, but in some of the cases I've seen folks just try and max out the case with the powder they have handy, and go for broke... That's what I don't get!! They put themselves and others at risk if someone's nearby, and if nothing else again they wind up trashing their barrel over time...