ive got a moss 500 12 and an 870 20. it surprised me how effective the are. ive taken grouse and rabbits with both and with buck shooting off the hip they will decimate a silhouette target at 20 paces. funny how stuff from way back becomes relevant again. first one i shot was a 97 win that dad cut the stock off and wacked the barrel off just ahead of the tube. i know its about sacrilegious but his drunken brother was out violating with it and wounded a deer and decided rather than waste ammo hed club it on the head and when he did it bent the barrel to badly to straighten. dad destroyed it when he found out he could go to prison for owning it.