Buck hunting

[DDZ]

Its the first day of buck hunting here in Pa. I have the pleasure of hunting with my 13 year old grand daughter, who last year shot a 11 point the first morning.
A good many years ago the game commission placed antler restrictions, which a buck had to have 4 on a side. Then due to many complaints from hunters, they made it 3 up, saying that like 80% of bucks had a brow tine if one side had 3 points. The idea I believe from the game commission was to have a state that grew bigger bucks and would spur more interest from out of state hunters. In turn they make more money from non resident license sales. Everything they do is geared to making money like having the first day on Saturday instead of Monday, and also Sunday hunting now. I don't think none of it has worked. Not many hunters anymore, due to younger people not doing it, and older folks either losing interest or just to old to hunt.
When I was younger a spike in this area was a rarity. Now seeing quite a few spikes. Started to see this about five years after the antler restrictions started. Used to be an 18 month old buck around here had 6 to 8 points. Now lots of scrubbing looking buck. The antler restrictions didn't improve the size of bucks in my area. Not many does getting shot, and young bucks with pour genes are breeding, because they are not getting shot.
This is my 54th year of deer season without missing a first day.  I certainly don't have the interest as much as I did when younger. The first day of buck season used to be bigger than Christmas morning. I remember my dad saying. When they made the antler restrictions, it took the fun out of hunting, which I find to be true.     

[Ranger99]

They'll never come right out and
say that they want to raise wt deer
with big antlers to attract license
and permit dollars from out-of-staters
that want a "big" buck for the office
wall or to post on their website.
Most I hear about/read about go
about that all wrong.
You never allow the herd bull with
the desirable characteristics to be
taken. You kill off the unproven
youngsters and the pencil rack
bucks. They're allowed to live and
spread their "undesirable " genes
for an eternity. This state is
the same hard headed way in most
all of the eastern counties.
IMO if you're licensed and legal
and not trespassing, and you see
any wt deer that you want to shoot
during the legal season for the
method you're using, there shouldn't
be any restrictions in your way of
using the tags you paid for.
The bureaucrats at all these
wildlife departments have very
nearly ruined hunting for all but
the big luxury wt deer hunting
ranches and clubs
I really feel sorry for those who
live in the wolf reintroduction
states, and places where varmint
trapping is highly restricted.
They didn't pay those expensive
bounties a century ago for no
reason.

[DDZ]

They'll never come right out and
say that they want to raise wt deer
with big antlers to attract license
and permit dollars from out-of-staters
that want a "big" buck for the office
wall or to post on their website.
Most I hear about/read about go
about that all wrong.
You never allow the herd bull with
the desirable characteristics to be
taken. You kill off the unproven
youngsters and the pencil rack
bucks. They're allowed to live and
spread their "undesirable " genes
for an eternity. This state is
the same hard headed way in most
all of the eastern counties.
IMO if you're licensed and legal
and not trespassing, and you see
any wt deer that you want to shoot
during the legal season for the
method you're using, there shouldn't
be any restrictions in your way of
using the tags you paid for.
The bureaucrats at all these
wildlife departments have very
nearly ruined hunting for all but
the big luxury wt deer hunting
ranches and clubs
I really feel sorry for those who
live in the wolf reintroduction
states, and places where varmint
trapping is highly restricted.
They didn't pay those expensive
bounties a century ago for no
reason.

The bureaucratic game commission in Pa has already ruined hunting.  I'm sure its happening in other states also.

[Lloyd Smale]

in mich its 4 points on one side and your second buck can have 3 on one side. been that way for about a decade and its done nothing to improve bucks or have more of them. 4 hunters at camp this year and only 2 bucks were even seen. a spike and a 4 pointer. 5 camps in our area and one 10 pointer was shot and 3 camps didnt even see a single buck. hands down the worse deer season ever in the 40 years weve owned the camp and theyre calling for another tough winter so next year it wouldnt even be worth dragging a gun out there

[DDZ]

I remember as a teenager the first day of buck season there was always lots of shooting happening. Had a lot more hunters, some walking and putting on drives, especially after morning hours. Family members who got a buck in the morning would push deer for those that were still hunting. Now come the first day, you hardly hear any shooting at all.  if you don't get a buck in the morning your chances are slim in seeing one until evening. Just not the hunters anymore. For one, the game  commission has taken the fun out of buck season.  Back in the day it was just as fun shooting a four point as shooting an 8. Now the deer gene pool has been depleted, because I think the smaller bucks are left because not many young hunters to shoot the spikes and smaller bucks, so they are left to do a lot of the breeding the next year.
My brother got an older buck this year. It had a good bit of main beam, but only 3 points on one side with a fairly short g-2. The other side had 4 points and a fairly long G-2 tine. So even though the buck was older it wasn't a nice looking set of horns. Mostly I think due to bad genes. The deer was at least 3 1/2 and maybe 4 1/2 years old. Which a lot of the older bucks shot now around here now have lots of main beam, but the horns are somewhat deformed, and not even. Also I have seen more spikes than I ever have. When I was younger we never saw a spike. 18 month old bucks always had 4,6,or 8 points.     

[neckisred]

Pennsylvania treats non residents poorly in their tag application progress. Non residents pay triple+ for an antlerless tag and have to wait for residents to apply first. I pay the same amount in property/school tax as any resident but sometimes can't get an antlerless tag to hunt my own property......

Antler restrictions have benefitted my area greatly. Most big bucks are killed in early bow season. Bow hunters work hard to kill these bucks and are very secretive and almost possesive of them. Spikes and non legal scrub bucks are almost more common to see than doe. No hunting pressure in my area either. Land lease companies are leasing and posting every acre they can get. Starting to see deer numbers like in the late 80's early 90's.....toooooooo many.

[Ranger99]

in mich its 4 points on one side and your second buck can have 3 on one side. been that way for about a decade and its done nothing to improve bucks or have more of them. 4 hunters at camp this year and only 2 bucks were even seen. a spike and a 4 pointer. . . .

Yeah
If the goal is big antlered buck deer,  they
need to be off limits for harvest, and the
pencil racks and spikes need to be the
legal males for harvest.
The bucks with desirable characteristics
are the ones that need to be off limits.
Those are the ones that are wanted to
breed and spread their genes.
Shoot the scrubs and let the " trophies "
walk.
The only other way to accomplish that
goal of big antlers is in a controlled
environment,  ie high fence.
Free ranging deer don't breed for the
characteristics that humans desire.

It's science