Author Topic: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)  (Read 4228 times)

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Offline Mac11700

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Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« on: March 04, 2007, 08:16:02 PM »
Just thought I would show you guys the differences between the muzzle loader fore arm...and that of the center fire fore arm...

I'll post the dimensions of each...

The center fire forearm..measured at each of the cross supports...rear to front

Width of rear channel=.835"
Width of rear tabs(sits over the pivot pin )=1.285"
Thickness of rear support=.420"
Center rear width of channel=.645"
Center front width of channel=.630"
Muzzle width of channel=.610"
Depth of forearm stud =.825"
Thickness of muzzle support=.155"

The muzzle loader forearm measured the same
Width of rear channel=.865"
Width of rear tabs (sits over pivot pins )=1.290"
Thickness of rear support=.275"
Center rear width of opening=.820"
Center front width of channel=.805"
Muzzle width of channel=.780"
Depth of forearm stud=.950"
Thickness of muzzle support=.320"

Side by Side pics with the muzzle loader forearm on the right

Breech end


Rear Center


Center supports


Forearm stud base


Muzzle support


The muzzle loader isn't as thick as the center fire forearm...It is much thinner in all places along the barrel with the exception of at the muzzle due to needing more for the ram rod opening.....Also...the center fire stud is much smaller than that of the muzzle loader...due to the ram rod having to pass thru it...Overall the MZ barrel hasn't near the taper to it as the center fire barrels...and it looks like we will be needing the channel opened for the CF forearms with the heavier bull barrels..

Here's some pics of how they have put the thumb hole stocks on...They use this adapter to allow the bolt to come out the grip...







Quick should have some pics for the regular stocks...Seems for those wanting to go to this type stocks...you will have to pick up one of these if they aren't included in the stocks when ordering...I'll check with them next week and see if they are...and if not...get the part number and cost for you all..

Mac

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Offline bigjeepman

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2007, 02:41:20 AM »
Excellent detailed information ... thanks Mac ...

In Tim's range report, he said his 7mm-08 had a mzl forearm. Unless I am seriously missing something here in your specs, I would think that would make a substantial difference in performance. Tim said he is going to play/sand/etc with it or get a centerfire forearm.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2007, 05:08:08 AM »
Excellent detailed information ... thanks Mac ...

In Tim's range report, he said his 7mm-08 had a mzl forearm. Unless I am seriously missing something here in your specs, I would think that would make a substantial difference in performance. Tim said he is going to play/sand/etc with it or get a centerfire forearm.

The differences in my forearms thickness allow the mzl forearm to come off the barrel & receiver quite easily..and the it only touches at the very tip of the muzzle and where it makes contact on the tips that fit over the pivot pin near the top..it is solid contact against the front of the stock...so it may be acting as a pressure point does. or at least changing the harmonics somehow. It really doesn't even make contact at the bottom of the stud..The center fire forearm is tighter on it.. and will hold onto the receiver at the pivot pin somewhat but still easily removable..

Tim has said that the Encore guys sand their forearms out to not allow it to touch at all to provide better accuracy..I don't know what if any this is going to do for the Elite..since it is relatively loose at the rear and not fixed as it is on our Handi's...The CF forearms are free floated...and the only contact (at least on mine ) is at the rear where it is a friction fit over the pivot pin..and at the barrel support sections you can see in the pictures...it doesn't touch at all on the muzzle area.

I guess I'll have to fire them with & without the forearms on mine and see what if any differences it makes...Tim's is a-lot tighter than mine is..and he feels it may cause some differences...Mine shot alright with my muzzle loader forearm on...and is very loose as compared to his..so I don't know...like he said..we will just have to play around with them to make sure...

nomosendaro brought up a good point to me...one worth checking out with the company...Since they sell these as combo's...and if the forearms make a significant difference in accuracy..do they come with both forearms when you purchase them?...I don't know yet...but I will find out..

Mac
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2007, 05:27:34 AM »

Quote
nomosendaro brought up a good point to me...one worth checking out with the company...Since they sell these as combo's...and  if the forearms make a significant difference in accuracy..do they come with both forearms when you purchase them?...I don't know yet...but I will find out..

I called...and they do come with the additional forearm...So...it looks like I'll have to borrow one off of of my sons 243 and try it out and see what it does..If it shoots better than it already has...that will make me very happy... ;)

Mac
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Offline bigjeepman

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2007, 05:39:51 AM »
When I was at Whittakers a couple of weeks ago, they said they did come with two forearms in the combos which I thought could lead to accuracy issues if interchanged. As your post points out, the difference to me seems to be substantial. The additional forearm also made the combo purchase an even better deal as I am thinking the forearms sold for approximately $30.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2007, 05:52:10 AM »
Thanks for the details Mac, those are substantial differences. Maybe I'll just order a CF forend for it instead of ruining this forend, someone may want to buy it off me since I don't need it. ;)

Tim

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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Fore Arm differences
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2007, 07:05:39 AM »
When I was at Whittakers a couple of weeks ago, they said they did come with two forearms in the combos which I thought could lead to accuracy issues if interchanged. As your post points out, the difference to me seems to be substantial. The additional forearm also made the combo purchase an even better deal as I am thinking the forearms sold for approximately $30.

I don't know if the accuracy was effected either way with mine...I'll just have to try the CF forearm and see..and I'll try it without any on it as well...

Mac
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 10:29:54 AM »


If I can make them work...I think I'll pick up a set of the Boyds thumbhole stocks for the Encore and see if they can be modified to allow us to use them...

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BrowseEbus/Encoretca.asp

Mac
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Offline myarmor

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2007, 09:27:34 AM »
This is a great post Mac, and some excellent pics as well. Thanks for taking the time to share them.

I don't mean to ride a dead horse here, and i know the Lams are coming in a month or so.
Are these going to be offered with the centerfire models too? I don't see why they wouldn't. The only reason I ask is I only see a pic of it on the Muzzleloader Elite.



-Aaron

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 03:47:20 AM »


They should be available for both...

Mac
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Offline jrkrk

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 06:28:55 PM »
I am considering the thumbhole stock for my OE did anyone ever find out if the thumbhole stocks come with the adapter?

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 06:52:54 PM »
It came with mine, but that would be another question you can ask Mark. ;)

Tim
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Offline jrkrk

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2008, 09:38:30 AM »
I did E-mail Mark and the adapter and bolt does come with the thumbhole stock for any else that is interested.

Offline youthpastorjon

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Re: Fore Arm differences and Butt Stock Adaptors(new)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2008, 08:39:56 AM »
I just got a 45-70 barrel in the mail today along with a centerfire barrel forend and there was a hand written note on my order form stating that I was to use the muzzleloader forend on my 45-70 not the included forend.  I have not tried it out yet. It seems a little odd to me. 

I have an Encore and I don't have to keep track of what fits what.  The ML forend goes on the ML and the centerfire on the centerfire. 

This is quite odd if you ask me.