Author Topic: .458 1 1/3  (Read 467 times)

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Offline Bob Riebe

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.458 1 1/3
« on: February 06, 2014, 10:10:21 AM »
Okay gents, I have a revolver coming that is almost done by Huntington (which means I may get it next year, 2015).

It is chambered for Win. Mag. .458 cut down to one and one-third inches.

Beyond buying .458 cases, what else will I need.

I have a RCBS singe-shell at a time reloading kit so I have that, but beyond the obvious bullets, primers, etc. what could I need that I do not have.

One cannot go out and buy a die-set for an odd caliber.



Offline deer140

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 02:43:01 AM »
Hello Bob, you're going to need a reamer. Because the case is going to be much thicker at 1 1/3 inches, then at full length. And of course you are needed . A set of custom dies. Out of curiosity, why did you choose the 458 win. For this project.

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 08:32:38 AM »
Ten years ago, back when Krieger was selling barrel blanks in a Pope style rifled barrel, in multiple sizes of blanks, i.e. thickness, I, while on the phone, did a guestimate with the help and agreement of the Krieger person, on what thickness I would need for a barrel to be machined down to a barrel, with link, for a LAR Grizzly .458 caliber.
Sadly we would have been correct for a 1911 but it was  too thin for a LAR Grizzly and I did not want to pay shipping and the extra cost for a different larger thickness blank; therefore I had a .458 barrel blank that was sitting in the closest. (It would have made a fantastic way to beat a burglar to death)

I was speaking with Jack Huntington who was now working on said same Grizzly,  to bore it out to .475 for Wildey cartridges.
I told him of the blank.
 In the same conversation, I told him I had a Herter's .44 Mag. that needed work as the cylinder pin was shot.
To make a long story short, (Jack LOVES doing oddball jobs) we decided to re-barrel and re-chamber the Herter's to .458.
Now I had/have .458 mag. cases that came in a collector cartridge lot I bought on-line, plus I would not have to deal with the size of the rims of .458 silhouette rounds.

It was going to be a longer case, but Jack found out that even opening the frame window, a 1.3 case would be the best size without seriously restricting the size, length, of bullet than can be used.
Also Jack has been fascinated by the old 1.3 rimless round as it was used in 'Nam years earlier, so that was the size we agreed on. (I knew there was not room for a 1.6 but I had told Jack to make it as long as possible, even if it was odd sized.)

I had, had a Bowen .445 Max. revolver that I had wanted Jack to take out to .500 Linebaugh Long, but Jack said that conversion, even with the frame already be a Bisley frame,  would cost with-in a small amount the same as doing the Herter's, so I sold the Bowen Revolver and sent Jack the Herter's and the barrel.

Oddly, I sent the Herter's over a year after I sent the Grizzly but while Jack found the Grizzly interesting, which is why he agreed to do it,  the Herter's piqued his interest more, and he admitted to me that the Herter's was worked on more than the Grizzly, although modifying the Grizzly magazines turned out to be a far, far, far greater problem than anyone  had imagined but the Grizzly and Herter's are now very close to the same point of being finished.

I love to talk to Jack as you find out the smallest items are often the biggest obstacle.
Two years for he Herter's and approx. four for the Grizzly. (He finally had to send the magazines out to be micro-welded but this is one of those gents, who does  work few do, that does the work when he feels like doing it, so when Jack gets the mags back he will send the Grizzly home to me.)

I would HIGHLY recommend Jack for any work one needs done.

Offline jedman

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 05:29:46 AM »
  WOW !!   Jack might do good work but most of us dont have 4 + years to wait on a gun to be modified.   You kind of lost me with your original question about what else will I need ?
 That depends a lot on how these guns are chambered, If allowance for the thick walled brass was considered maybe just a standard 458 die set with the bottoms of the dies shortened would do ?  ???
 Sounds like you went to a lot of trouble to get something very much like the 454 Casual but if you need a rimless case I would have started with cut down 284 Win. brass instead of a belted mag case.
 Really with the thicker case head and 1.3" length you will be at the same case capacity of a 45 Colt but will have a .458 bullet.
 Good Luck with your pistols and let us know how they work out.


   jedman
Current handi family,  M-48 12 ga.  M 48 20 ga. M 48 .410 ga. 50-70,45-70 trapdoor H & R,  45 smokeless MZ, 44 spl.,.401 meatmaster( 40 x .410 ), .375 H & R, .357 max, .340 MF ( wildcat ), 8 mm Lebel, .303 OB ( wildcat ), 280 rem., 270 x 57 R, .223 rem.

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2020, 10:32:16 AM »
This is a copy of a response to a thread I put at GBO.
I now have both guns; I got the Grizzly back just days from exactly 8 years from the day I sent it in.
 
 When I figure out how to post photos, I WILL post pictures but Jack did not do a cosmetic job, reshaping the trigger guard on my Grizzly I really wanted so A: I am disappointed, B: it looks like any other Grizzly.
 
 Loading cartridges for the revolver, getting dies (although I have gotten a few -- all you have to do, maybe --  from some gents) -- is turning into a night mare.
 I jumped through a lot of hoops trying to get a major reloading brand make me a set of dies; after I did and sent them all they needed /wanted they sent it back saying we do not do this any more.
 
 My memory , is starting to worry me, as I have posted pics. of guns and sold them online, as recently as five years ago, but I do not remember how, along with all the gun parts, 1911 frames & slides, I have I had forgotten I had.
 I also had NO idea it had been six years since my last post on this thread.

Offline darkgael

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2020, 05:51:27 AM »
Bob: the limited description of the cartridge reminds me one that I read about in Cartridges of the World. It was the .458 X 1.5” Barnes. Barnes’ comment about reloading was “no one makes loading dies for this cartridge but one can improvise using .45 Colt or other .45 pistol dies”
Pete

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: .458 1 1/3
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2020, 08:15:02 AM »
Bob: the limited description of the cartridge reminds me one that I read about in Cartridges of the World. It was the .458 X 1.5” Barnes. Barnes’ comment about reloading was “no one makes loading dies for this cartridge but one can improvise using .45 Colt or other .45 pistol dies”
Pete
I read that also but no one seemed to know more than what that article says, and these were gents big in the business.

Back before I peed away a lot money on foo-foo steaks, for ungrateful persons who scarfed it down, and fireworks , I found a place that said producing such a cartridge is possible, plus helping me with  information on reloading.
I was full on to do some wheeling dealing, (it included a possible firearm exchange also) but I spent money on the above and then  I put alot on hold when Chinese virus paranoia really took off with our little Hitler governor making life shite.
When I get my car fixed, I spent thousands in parts that will be recouped when insurance check comes, I will have the money to pee away some on a firearm that exists because it could.
Jack Huntington knew of the 1.3 inch version , created for the U.S. Armny from which the 1.5 inch version came to be, actually used in guns at a 1.4 inch size by Linebaugh and Bowen, when I floated an idea to him many years ago.
This was going to be a 1.4 but Jack said for bullet seating, on this frame and cylinder window , 1.3 would be better wlhich is why it is that size, SO, at this point , Jack said I could send it back and he could see how to load some rounds  ( he said he  was in a legal quagmire at the time he was finishing my firearms and said they did not get the attention they should have )   but then I found the other gun maker who is interested in it also, so I did neither.

I do not regret getting the fireworks but I could have fed the crowd cheaper beef and had no complaints which would have put a few hundred bucks back in my pocket.
I should get serious about how to put pictures on the site, but since my legal hassle started with my Aunt four years ago,   ( After two years,  I won the case )  I have trouble getting the wind back in my sails and I am way behind on things,   many actually important,  going much less done. 

Thank you for reminding me that I should get this ball rolling again. 8)