Author Topic: Plastic primer carrier alternative  (Read 1813 times)

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Offline muznut 54

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Plastic primer carrier alternative
« on: July 06, 2012, 12:57:12 PM »
I'm going to give up my secret that I have been doing for years if you trim down a WSM or WSSM brass to near the web it will fit perfectly in the breech plug carrier pocket and if you get the head space right you wont have any blow back and you can use large rifle mag primers and it works great with BH209 because the plug has a deep powder pocket and the system is sealed. When the case is trimmed to size their will be a small lip from the case in front of the web and if you get the right size high temp O'ring or rubber washer and put it between the lips it will really be sealed against blow back and the elements too. Also if you use this set up on a center-fire frame with a 4570 barrel it makes for a great smokeless conversion because the brass web is backing up your breech plug and their is no plasma blow by.

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 07:09:50 PM »
OK, so like an arse I gave all my 300 wsm stuff back to my buddy. Shellholders, dies, brass, bullets, everything and now I'm kicking myself for it (his rifle anyways).
 
So I turn my house upside down and find a single piece of 300 wsm brass as a consolation prize which represents all the material I have till I get on the phone and call my buddy to ship it back :)
 
Anyways, I already cut it to .355 and test fit. DEFINITELY not even close to no blowback without an O-ring (no solution seems to have no blowback without an O-ring!) but given the case thickness down there, it's a pretty slick solution. LRM primers arent even close to the power of the 209's I have but maybe that's best anyways. I will definitely try these at the range!
 
But I have a question. Is there any way to have the brass "held in place" while the action is open? I'm working on a brass plug that has a groove for an o-ring that will create just enough friction to stay in place in case I am moving around with an open action.
 
Or did you just not worry about that?
 
Also, what O-ring did you end up using? Just a generic that fits permanently into the breechplug, then trim the brass extra to compensate?
 
Thanks!
 
PS, did you ever consider filling the wsm brass with lead then drilling out the primer pocket to eliminate the large air chamber between the primer and breechplug flash hole? Or is yours just open as-trimmed?

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 03:49:10 AM »
WR on mine I trimmed them to .333 but I'm sure every rifle will need to be a little different. My WSM carriers fit like they were made for it and I don't worry about them falling out when I'm loading and when Im reloading I want them to come out easy.When you get it sealed up right a large rifle mag primmer will ignite anything you use. Mine will get very slow burning and hard to ignite smokeless lit with no problems. For the o'ring mine are about 3mm thick and I put them inside the front lip on the trimmed brass I head space off that front lip so don't cut that off. For a hunting scenario I clean the wsm carrier and I smear a small amount of silicon sealer on one side of the o'ring and glue it in the carrier they stay in by them self but when hunting and handling the carrier I don't want to take that chance and use silicon sealer. I wouldn't fill the front pocket with lead on mine because they work great the way they are.

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 07:49:36 AM »
I have been thinking about it and I guess you could trim the WSM brass down to the web and put an o'ring in the carrier pocket. But I like the solid head space from the thick lip and the firing pin cant push the whole works forward. Also the more 90deg turns the plasma gas has to make the better the sealing and I like zero head space to backup my breech plug. ;)

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 08:16:41 PM »
Hi muz,


I have more traction on this project now. Had a stock issue that is now corrected, I'm sighted in, I'm ready to go! But still have been using my primer carrier.


Finally picked up my buddy's brass and got the go ahead to cut a bunch down, But I'm curious about what o-rings you used. I'm gonna make 15-18 of these or so so I never have to change out primers at the range (of course hunting will be a non issue), having an oring in each one would be nice.
Do you have a ready source for O-rings? that pop right in, fit snug, don't fall out, etc? What's your source? And what material did you pick, is there a round limit? The rings I am using right now get caked up and break after 20 rounds or so.

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 03:23:32 AM »
Hi WR, the o'rings I use I just went to my local hardware store with the WSM carrier and matched a bunch up I think they were 3mm or a little more thick you can also tray some hot water faucet rubber washers. But for me I must of lucked out with the head space because unless I'm hunting I don't even use the O'ring and have very little if any blow by. My WSM carriers seem to last forever, their is not much pressure on the rifle primer compared to the wsm round. 

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 05:13:15 AM »
Yes, I expect the carriers to last forever. My brass carrier will last forever too, but needs a copper brush every few shots or else the 209's wont slide in. I think your carrier idea is more elegant and a better long term solution.
I'll try o-ring-less and see how much blowback I get.
Based on your oring explanation though, it sounds like you are using a flat washer oring? That might explain alot, I am using viton round orings, it's not as easy as a flat might be.

Offline catncarp

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 11:43:53 PM »
anybody have a picture of the carriers
7mm-08,  223, 30-30, 30-30 ai, 357 mag, 357 max TALO, 20 gauge, 50 cal huntsman, 22 mag, 20 gauge smoothbore slug, 30-06-03 target, 20 gauge full,  NRA LIFE MEMBER,

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 05:12:14 AM »
Nope! But give me a day or two, I can snap them. I should be able to do that by Sunday. :)

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 07:19:28 PM »
here are my carriers. wsm and the brass models I turned, reusable with 209's. Also a locked plastic carrier, those are terrible. Also one o-ring, but its a pain to put in, so dunno if I'll use that one for all these here. Need to see how bad they leak gas first.

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 07:33:07 AM »
Thanks for the picks WR that's what my WSM carriers look like too. I just bought a digital camera the other day but my mother passed away last night and I don't want to mess with pictures now.

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 07:50:19 AM »
Hey WR I guess I wasn't very specific about the o'ring that I use? Its 3mm thick and 12mm OD. I bought them from EBS. They only have about .010 of crush fit when I close the action in my gun but that's all I need they stay in the carrier real nice and seal great. My head space is .333 but if yours is .355 you will need a 3.5 or 4mm o'ring, Ill try to stop by a few places to see if they have what you need and let you know.

Offline Whiterabbitttttt

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 08:38:01 AM »
I'd love that. Mine require a pretty tight tolerance. Lockup is super tight, but fouling does get in the way after a little while.
 
Maybe they don't require such a tight tolerance, but I have zero problems with blowback, so I don't intend to loosen that up and find out.

I experimented early on and cut a 3mm oring to weasel in there but it was far too labor intensive to use on all the carriers. A fixed O-ring would be really nice. Then I could be loosey-goosey with the plugs and it would still seal up tight. What is EBS? That's nto something I can google and get info on.

Offline muznut 54

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 04:38:24 AM »
EBS is a building supply store kinda like Home Cheapo but better. I have stopped by a few places and it seems when you go to a thicker o'ring the OD gets much larger and wont fit in the carrier. The 3mm by 12mm OD rings that I have stay in the carrier real nice even outside of the gun. Ill keep looking for some thicker ones for you.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Plastic primer carrier alternative
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2019, 04:50:47 AM »
Let's bring this one back up and see if folks might want to talk more about it.


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