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Offline shotgunner

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Ideas for changes to the deer season
« on: February 02, 2010, 02:25:44 PM »
I think we would all agree that many people are unhappy with the situation in the PA deer season. I think we could also agree that things have changed. Perhaps it is time, or it soon will be, for some changes. What do you guys think of Sunday hunting? Moving the gun season up to include the Thanksgiving holiday and perhaps part of the rut? Moving the archery season back to do the same? I am hoping to retire soon and if I do maybe more hunting days will not matter to me as much, but I think that for hunters across the state, more days, or better days,  might help. Shotgunner
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Offline BCB

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 12:18:19 AM »
Suppose deer season could be open year-around (Said sarcastically of course!) as that is just about what it is now.  I wonder how much time a person really needs to harvest a deer?  If every hunter got a deer, how many would be left at the end of a season.  There should be no guarantee of a deer, but that seems to be what every hunter now wants.  We have enough seasons, maybe too many in my opinion...

And, as I have stated several times on here concerning Sunday Hunting--Nope...

BCB

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 10:50:35 AM »
I think that it is not more days, but better quality days we need, and more days that we can actually use. We have had rain on opening day as well as the first Saturday. That is 2 of the only 3 days many people can hunt. Sundays would be an increased opportunity, that would not get in the way of going to work. Of course you don't have to hunt on a Sunday if you don't want to. I hear a lot of people complaining about the deer season, does anyone have a useful suggestion that might help? Shotgunner
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Offline Bingo

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 01:39:05 PM »
  The Game commission was out to cut the deer herd down in size. They have done that. The opening of doe season with buck season has resulted in a lot more doe being harvested. Add to that the outbreak of EHD two years ago and in some areas, you are lucky to see a deer all week.
   Where I hunt, although we have doe tags, we are reluctant to use them. EHD really hurt our herd and it is just now starting to recover. A year ago we didn't shoot any doe. This past season we only took two. That is a far cry from the days when we would drop 6-8 on one drive.

  Don't get a tude!!!!!   We managed our herd well and doe season was for table meat not just killing something. :-*

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 03:05:47 PM »
I don't have issue with taking does for the table. I think that the antler restrictions have given us more big bucks, that is I know it has in my area, and I think it would be a good thing to be able to hunt these older deer during the rut. Maybe a bucks only archery season, or a week of bucks only with the rifle. We do not have the deer drives that we did 15 or 20 years ago. These deer are not moving in the mild weather of the early season. The hunters up in tree stands are not moving them. The rut would do it. Most states have a season, in fact design their season to be concurrent with the rut. Maybe PA could do the same. Shotgunner
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Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 03:04:42 PM »
i know this is an old topic. since we've had another season to ponder it any new suggestions?

i have a few most will not like. no to sundays,no to semi autos,no to rifle in the rut,no to inlines during the rut(flintlock maybe ok),a lottery for buck tags,etc i could go on but i'd like to hear other suggestions so it can be openly dicussed thats a huge problem in pa not enough hunters care till the day after thanksgiving.

There are many things i see as problems but like many others don't know how to put them out there.

The PGC under Gary Alt stated the problem is overpopulation so the plan was to reduce the herd,secondary to this was our buck to doe ratio was way out of wack so the plan was to kill more doe and let the younger bucks live.To accomplish this they put up antler restrictions and extra doe tags and made a combined season.Which i feel worked great for the first year but thats where the problem started,most people i know got 2 or more deer that year didn't report their kills.

Now this might seem minor but do the math i come from a big family between brothers,sisters,their husbands and wives,neices and nephews it comes to nearly 20 hunters 20x2or more=40+ deer with maybe 3 that got reported. now assuming this trend is statewide ask yourself how many were killed that first year? How many were reported? Why is this important? The PGC bases doe tag allocation on the previous years report numbers.

Offline jays375

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2011, 05:17:49 PM »
I personally think adding more days would hurt things even more.More days is going to equal more deer shot.One problem now is there isn't enough bucks to breed what does there are.That is one thing they never predicted.It is caused by how far the population is down.People have to quit shooting the small deer.Seems like everyone of those is a button buck.Just makes me sick how many people shoot a deer just to fill tag.The type that always have to brag "got my deer".The sport is going to change alot more in the coming years.With less and less hunters every year.The lack of new hunters is really going to change things.Seems like alot of mentor hunters go out until they are of age and then can't go and take a safety course.Hopefully things will work out.

Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 07:14:51 AM »
Ahh yes the "The Mentored Youth Program" i like the idea of this but not the actual way its done.i know too many people who buy all their kids tags so they can shoot extra deer most of the mentored youths i've seen haven't even shot the gun they are supposed to be hunting with.i feel this program hurts more than it helps,too many kids getting chased away from hunting by bad parenting

Offline BCB

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 01:29:24 PM »
A bit more to my previous post...

This suggestion may sound antiquated and “of the past”, but why not bring the seasons back to the way there were in the 60’s and 70’s or thereabout…

A buck was a buck was a buck.  Spikes being the only exception with length…

There were only several thousand doe licensed per county—depending on populations.  The season was 2 or 3 days with the possible extension to the following Saturday if it was thought enough doe weren’t taken.  The doe season was the Monday and Tuesday after the 2 weeks of buck season…

Do the same with the small game seasons…

Get rid of all of the “specialty” seasons.  Maybe an archery season or maybe a muzzle loader season, but they should be minimal.  Archery season should be given more consideration than muzzleloader season.  I have seen some of the muzzleloaders and they shoot dang well.  My nephews are deadly at ranges to nearly 100 yards…

I hunt with handguns as the ol’ right eye can’t see to shoot rifles and shotguns anymore.  I can use a handgun right-handed but use my left eye. I don’t have a special season for handguns.  I get right out there in the regular seasons and use what I have.  Actually, muzzleloaders could hunt in this season also.  A challenge is a challenge whether it is intentional or necessary as in my case…

Too many seasons, too dang confusing.  Let’s go back to the “ol’ days” and enjoy the sport again.  I certainly enjoyed it much more then…

Just my thoughts…

BCB

Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 05:44:21 AM »
going backwards will not fix things,thats what caused most of the problems we have now.

There was a study done once,they tagged male fawns roughly 90% were killed the first year, 9% the second year, which left 1% to actually make it to maturity. This is the whole reason for antler restrictions to allow a larger percentage to reach maturity.This should not be changed.

The short doe season combined with low tag numbers and 2 weeks of hunting pressure was the reason our buck to doe ratio was way off, at one point i heard it was estimated at 25doe to every buck a healthier ratio is 4to1 or better yet 2to1.

Land can only support so much wildlife and our forests were suffering from the severe overpopulation.

They are trying all the specialty seasons to entice more people to buy licenses plain and simple.is that a bad thing is the question?

I'm sorry you don't enjoy hunting as much as you used to maybe you'll find a challenge that will bring back the excitement.

Offline BCB

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 09:30:29 AM »
av-doctor,

Well it was just a thought on my part—sorry ‘bout that…

So if going backward won’t help and we changed things to solve that problem and that is where we are now, and there still appears to be problems—maybe the problem isn’t solvable?  And that reason being, there are too many people with too many self-serving agendas as to how the seasons should be.  Therefore, all of the speciality seasons that are extremely difficult to understand in many cases and, 'nuff said on that...

In all honesty, I really don’t care which way it goes.  I hunt when I can and with the abilities that I have—I’ve accepted this fact…

I’ve had plenty of seasons in the field and there never was as much animosity as there is now.  So, I will gladly let the “hot shots” (pun intended) solve the problems.  They have all of the time in the world, except that the lack of money from people not hunting is beginning to show up...

A new challenge you say?  I am grinning, but sadly.  If only knew the challenges that I am presently faced with, you certainly would have never made that statement…

You need not feel sorry for me…

BCB



Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 04:41:12 AM »
don't be sorry thats why i brought this thread back to life.

i understand the confusion ,and the problem might be unsolvable! as you mentioned before too many factions have their own agenda.

i realize your moving towards the end of your hunting days but what about the generations to come shouldn't they have the chance to enjoy the outdoors as much as you have.

yeah i hear you attitudes have really changed the last few years.

Thats a problem we have the PGC wants to be on its own (no govt funding) so if they can't keep people buying tags they will lose money.

A wise man (can't remember who) once said  never stop learning and challenge yourself daily,its the only way to know your still alive.

I do not feel sorry for you brother, your still out there as much as you can, yeah maybe limited some but still there none the less,its obvious you don't feel sry for yourself so why should i, just play the hand your dealt and bluff if you have.

Keep your head up its not over till its over

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 01:27:06 AM »
It is early summer and I am seeing lots of deer. No evidence of does without fawns. My daughter did see a black bear eating two fawns while on a horseback ride the other day. I think there are plenty of bucks to breed the does. I believe we all need to work together, archers, black powder hunters and rifle. We are all deer hunters. I don't mind if they cut back on the doe tags, but we need a better way to hn the big bucks, and more days to do it. Shotgunner
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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 03:19:49 PM »
with combined archery muzzloader rifle you can hunt deer for almost 4 months straight, factor in nearly a million licenses sold every year its tough to find away to give more time without stressing the deer anymore.

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 02:25:59 AM »
There has been a change this season, in every DMU around me, but not mine. The first week will be bucks only, with the does being added the second week. I think it will encourage people to hunt the first day of the mixed buck and doe season. Might be a way to get more people out. I am seeing a lot of deer this summer, several does with 3 fawns, some nice bucks. I am hoping for a good season this year. Shotgunner
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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 04:41:27 AM »
i don't do alot of preseason scouting mainly because the place i hunt is about 30 miles away and i work 3rd shift,i get off at 8am so its abit late i'll start looking around towards the end of sept.
  they changed that for me last year  i normally hunt in 4d but with the price of gas i spent alot of time in 4b last year about 5 miles from my house is state game lands which is 4b

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 10:17:39 AM »
Seems like Pa. has had very controversial laws for some time now. I would consider hunting out of state as I would have a hard time following "Flawed Law".

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2011, 02:55:15 PM »
  Being born and raised here it seems more normal to me.  As mentioned above there are alot of problems with game law here.
  How do you keep a million people happy? When they range from 12 to 70 (estimated max age, don't flame me) you have the old timers who say it was great to go out and see 100 deer a day even if they were small,starving,or barely out of spots,and they youngins who are happy to go see 1 deer a day even if its a very healthy young doe.
  That is the core of most debates,  one side it was better in the 70's and 80's deer were everywhere, the other,  the quality is better now.
  how can you make or change a law that affects both without losing any from either side? short answer you can't!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2011, 07:03:11 PM »
I'm in Bama and I know you have folks way older than 70 still hunting. My friend's FIL is in his 80s and still goes out each season. Some of his hunting buddies likely of similar age are also still hunting.


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Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2011, 06:21:15 AM »
  its just an expression thus the parentheses i know lots of older hunters i love to listen to their stories whenever possible

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 02:41:26 AM »
This is a change that is a lot like going back to before they changed it. We used to have a deer season that was bucks only, then a 3 day does season. A few years back they changed it so you could shoot does for the who 2 weeks. People complained. Now it is going back to being more like it was, and sure enough people will complain. Myself, I am willing to give a new idea a try, it seems like it has advantages. Shotgunner
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Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 01:21:59 PM »
i'm all for the shorter doe season as long as they allocate more tags. we need to maintain the buck to doe ratio.

Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2011, 01:18:31 PM »
In my opinion there are goods and bads to what the PGC is doing and the changes they have implemented. I love the antler restrictions. I would much rather shoot a nice buck and allow that spike to grow to potential. As far as all the different seasons it has opened the gate for many who previously didnt hunt have a chance doing it with the weapon that they choose. That said I see no reason for archery and crosssbow to be combined. Crossbow use to be for handicap and should primarily still be. I am of the thought that crossbow could share the week long octobers season with muzzeloader and a crossbow stamp should be needed. I think the whole rifle season schedule needs to be looked at. This year bear,turkey were open the week before deer opened. With the lack of a doe population how about doe only the Friday and saturday after thanksgiving. The remainder of the season is buck only. These are just a couple thought and as mentioned everyone will never be able to be fully pleased but we all need to compromise and solutions need to be implemented before it is to late. 

Offline 84Jim

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 06:58:39 AM »
Here's my .02.  First of all, didn't see as many deer this year as in the past.  I'm surprised at the small size of some of the yearlings that I've seen, I'm guessing 50-60 lbs. and this is Washington County where they usually grow pretty big.  Also, probably the least hunting pressure since we've been hunting here since 1990 or so.  But none the less we've been hunting and seeing enough deer to keep us going back.  We put out a trail cam at several places on our 10 acres and have documented at least 12 bucks, six legal and another 6 too small.  Not as many doe as I'd expect but apparently the buck-doe ratio is getting better. Don't figure that more than 1 or 2 bucks were killed in buck season.  I did get a doe last week with a rifle (we're in 2B) and we found a dead tiny button buck on our property that was apparently shot during the buck season (more to that story but not enough room here to tell it).  Another one of my sons who is home from college has missed 2 does so far, he needs some practice.  PS he did check for blood and other signs of a hit and found nothing.  He has been taught well unlike the guy who shot the button buck and left it lay.
 
My oldest son and I hunted with our cross bow during archery season and both of us saw legal bucks; he missed one, couldn't get a shot at another one, and I let another "barely legal" walk.  I wish I would have tried a shot now since I haven't got a buck since 2006.  Next year.  All of our buck sightings were on the last 2 days of the season, apparently the rut was a little bit late this year.  We also saw bucks chasing does while bear hunting the week before Thanksgiving.
 
I understand how bow hunting purists might look down at cross bows but in our case it give us a chance to get out in the woods since I doubt either of us has the time to properly practice with a compound.  But I do realize what an advantage a cross bow is, but its still bow hunting.  I did hunt with a recurve when I was younger and to me thats traditional bow hunting anyway.
 
My conclusions:  Sunday hunting, I don't have much of an opinion but wouldn't care if they passed it.  Cross bows, I like it.  Bow hunting seems to be the best time to see bucks moving.  Antler restrictions, I like them also.  I just wish they'd let senior hunters have the same break as juniors.  I agree with whoever said that they should try to get either rifle or bow season more in line with the rut.  That is a problem because they still have to fit bear season in there someplace.
 
But that's just my opinion...

Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 01:43:46 AM »
Ever since reading this post I have become more concerned about the way the herd is being managed and the hampsters are running on the wheels in my head. How about implementation of a rule where you must shoot your buck before you can shoot a doe. This would end the well this county is closed first week this one isn't for doe.  They could probobly sell even more doe tags and gain extra revinue and tyhe majority of them will not even get filled. If you shoot one during archery you must have a doe tag for the county you wish to rifle hunt to shoot a doe like usual. Special reg areas will still remain the same as populations are still busting at the seams. I think that would get the doe population back up. Just a thought.

Offline shotgunner

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 12:30:27 AM »
Why does the bear season need to be different then the deer season? It is done in other states. Deer and bear together. Shotgunner
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Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2012, 12:38:53 AM »
In certain WMU areas in the state it does overlap. And in some you can shoot does the first week others you cant till the second week.

Offline dave22250

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2012, 02:04:47 AM »
I hope they never pass Sunday hunting,I've talked to a couple farmers where I hunt and they said they would post there property if it gets past as its the only day they get peace from huters and they like to have family dinners and get togethers and don't want the hunters around.

Offline Pennsyman

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 02:53:05 PM »
A bit more to my previous post...

This suggestion may sound antiquated and “of the past”, but why not bring the seasons back to the way there were in the 60’s and 70’s or thereabout…

A buck was a buck was a buck.  Spikes being the only exception with length…

There were only several thousand doe licensed per county—depending on populations.  The season was 2 or 3 days with the possible extension to the following Saturday if it was thought enough doe weren’t taken.  The doe season was the Monday and Tuesday after the 2 weeks of buck season…

Do the same with the small game seasons…

Get rid of all of the “specialty” seasons.  Maybe an archery season or maybe a muzzle loader season, but they should be minimal.  Archery season should be given more consideration than muzzleloader season.  I have seen some of the muzzleloaders and they shoot dang well.  My nephews are deadly at ranges to nearly 100 yards…

I hunt with handguns as the ol’ right eye can’t see to shoot rifles and shotguns anymore.  I can use a handgun right-handed but use my left eye. I don’t have a special season for handguns.  I get right out there in the regular seasons and use what I have.  Actually, muzzleloaders could hunt in this season also.  A challenge is a challenge whether it is intentional or necessary as in my case…

Too many seasons, too dang confusing.  Let’s go back to the “ol’ days” and enjoy the sport again.  I certainly enjoyed it much more then…

Just my thoughts…

BCB

I have been reading these posts and AHHHHH! This man has hit the nail smack on the head! I hunted thru the late 1960's onward. I remember the sizeable herds of deer. I have several camp owner friends that say they are getting sick of looking at trees instead of deer. A father takes his son out for a first hunt and sees maybe a fast moving yearling disappearing into a thicket and  nothing else shows up for the rest of the day. Really gives a kid incentive to hunt. I dont know how the future of hunting is going to end up but if the state keeps going with the current format it wont look good.
Pennsyman, NRA Life Member

Offline av-doctor

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Re: Ideas for changes to the deer season
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2012, 04:09:39 AM »
i hear the same story all the time ,(i haven't seen a deer in 5yrs) blah blah blah  deer change their patterns and so should you! my dad quit for the same reasons, because he couldn't sit at the edge of a field and mow down a herd as they tried to cross. he was raised as a meat hunter they relied on filling the freezer to make it through winter. the thought of doing anything else was too much for him.