Author Topic: disapointed in my 629 (Read 5949 times)

halfbreed · « **on:** February 02, 2005, 04:01:53 AM »

what do you do with a ccdw weapon that has to be taken back to the smiths way too often? This pistol is a Lou Horton special. 3" non fluted cylinder 629-5, so far the bbl forcing cone had to be beveled, the cylinder face had to be squared and stoned smooth, the topstrap is flame cut way more than it should be for the amount it is fired.
Now I had to take it back again because I could not get the crane and cylinder out for cleaning. That is when I found out the crane may be bent, and it is out of time to boot. I am very careful of my firearms. I absolutely do not abuse them! I shoot full power loads, but not over what the manuals list. NEVER
I have absolutely lost all confidence in S&W, I am done with them. I do not care what kind of a customer service program they run, or how quick and well they run it. This piece of steel should have never left their shop. But I bet they knew it was not up to snuff when they shipped it.
I am thinking about a Dan Wesson or a Ruger .357, this way my wife and I can use the same ammo all the time.

sawfish · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2005, 09:34:24 AM »

I have the unfluted cyl. M629 with full underlug, which was manufactured for Lew Horton around 1992. My gun was somewhat rough when received, but was smoothed up nicely by the local gunsmith. It had none of the problems you describe. From your description, your gun is a Peformance Center Model (will have PC logo on gun) made in 1999-2000.

My point is that both of these guns were made before the current ownership of S & W took control. Both customer service and quality control have been much improved since that time. I suggest that you return the gun to the performance center with a list of the problems, and request that they either bring it up to the performance center standards, or replace the gun.

I guess what I am saying is that it is a little unfair to paint the current management with the same brush as the British previous owners. At least not without allowing them to make amends. IMHO. Regards.

halfbreed · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2005, 10:18:34 AM »

Sawfish, I sent it back to S&W today, along with a letter from my gunsmith. and a letter from me, stating what all had to be done before on this pistol. I think it is really unfair to buy a high dollared handgun thinking you are getting something of value, something that can be handed down through several generations. and having to rebuild, or keep working on it just to have it almost dependable.
I understand what you are saying about the current management, but a 629 is pretty much a 629.
Would you feel comfortqable carrying this thing against both 2 and 4 legged critters wanting to do you harm. Confidance in your weapon is everything. I don't have confidance in this one anymore. And don't really know if that confidance can be rebuilt. I feel I will always be expecting that next breakdown. Not a good feeling, and feeling let down.
Halfbreed

sawfish · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:03:34 AM »

Halfbreed, Hopefully S & W will give you the satisfaction you desire. I was not disputing the problems you outlined, or minimizing the reliability factor. I was simply stating that I thought Smith (or any ither manufacturer) should have a chance to rectify the situation before condemning them to the trash heap. IMHO, your gunsmith should have recommended that course of action a long time ago based on your original post. Let us know how this turns out. Regards. Sawfish

halfbreed · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:20:31 AM »

Sawfish, hopefully I will hear something soon. This one deal has really gotten under my skin. I sent a copy of the receipt with the letter and pistol I bought it 01/??/01, so it is a little older than I thought. This one has really disapointed me. I really hate losing confidance in a firearm. Once lost it is almost impossible to regain. What really hurts is I really enjoy shooting and carrying this pistol, and it conceals so easily.
Halfbreed

sawfish · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:46:26 AM »

Then you have the same model that I have. As stated, mine was extremely rough when purchased, but I did not have of the mechanical problems you mentioned. After my local gunsmith worked it over, and narrowed the trigger, I sent it to Ken Kelly at Mag-Na-Port for porting and a general lookover. Ken did not find any other problems either.

Sorry that you got the lemon of the bunch. I really like the gun, and had Dick Murray Custom Leather make one of their crossdraw Hunter holsters for it. Those are great, and you should consider one for field use if everything works out.

I bought my gun new in 1993. Interestingly enough, I saw one for sale a few months back in a local gun shop for $600. You are more patient than I am, as it did not take me 14 years to get disgusted with the stock gun. You must have a slow burn:D Regards. Sawfish

halfbreed · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2005, 12:20:15 PM »

I am very patient, but when I have had my fill I am done. I am very near that point. The real kicker is trying to find something that is worthy of my confidance. which is hard to earn, much less earn back. I just plain think it is wrong to ship a firearm when you know it is going to need work.
Halfbreed

sawfish · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2005, 12:54:42 PM »

I agree, but there are very few companies that have not shipped at least one defective product. A sad consequence in these days where craftmanship and pride in one's work are becoming lost arts.

halfbreed · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2005, 01:42:50 PM »

you are right it is sad. But it is even worse that the shooting public sees nothing wrong with buying a new firearm and spending several hundred dollars to make it shoot worth a hoot right out of the box, trigger pull, muzzle crowns, action jobs etc,etc.
things of this nature should never leave the factory, or else why buy a smith, h&k, and like over something like a Lama, Norinco, Larson, they all have to have some serious work to be a reliable shooter, if they can become a reliable shooter.

sawfish · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2005, 06:52:50 AM »

It is a production cost factor thing. For the same reasons, a production model truck does not have the raised suspension, custom wheels, headers, etc.. The owner adds the options of his choice at the time he can afford to do so.

If you want all of the nicities you mention, buy a custom, or custom shop gun. Otherwise, add them on later. You would not do those things to a Llama, etc, because after $1,000 of custom work, you would not have improved the value of the gun.

Regards

halfbreed · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2005, 01:25:29 PM »

I once built a very hot 72' el camino, LT1, 525 HP, Turbo 400, kevlar bands, high rpm stall torque converter, 4:55 posi rear, etc,etc it was a bat from hell. never could get the Blackjack headers to quit leaking no matter what I tried. I did a custom paint job, My folks own a custom upholstery shop, I worked in there too, a crushed velvet interior bucket seats, console on and on. 12 speaker surround system, booster, amp. It was not a collector piece, it was a ROD. When I get something working the way I like it, there is no resale value. It is mine,mine,mine. all the way to the end.
the Lou Horton is a custom shop gun! supposed to be one of the best out there. That is why I bought it. I don't need the best of anything, But I want what I pay for! Regardless of vehicle, firearm or whatever.
Halfbreed

S.B. · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2005, 07:17:26 AM »

halfbreed, You didn't mention if you were sending it back to S&W or an authorized repair center or having it work on by someone else? Did you buy this gun new or did someone else own it before you? ccdw?, concealed carry defense weapon? Pretty big for concealed carry, and over penetration could be a liability with full house .44 magnums?

S.B. · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2005, 07:21:53 AM »

Quote from: halfbreed

I am very patient, but when I have had my fill I am done. I am very near that point. The real kicker is trying to find something that is worthy of my confidance. which is hard to earn, much less earn back. I just plain think it is wrong to ship a firearm when you know it is going to need work.
Halfbreed

Let me end your agony, sell me this piece of junk? Shoot me a price I can't refuse?

halfbreed · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2005, 12:38:14 PM »

S.B. in my second post i mentioned I sent it back to S&W, maybe they can straighten in out. I hope so. I use to really enjoy this one. As far as concealability goes, I have no problem concealing it at all!
On the streets I carry it with 44 spcl silvertip hollowpoints, in the woods I carry it with full throttle 240gn hardcast.
Where I was playing around wolf, black bears, and rarely but occassionally moose could be causing a problem. I think a hardcast .44 full throttle is just about perfect for the day.
As far as givin ya a price, not hardly, :wink: wouldn't want to do ya that way, we are too close, you might want to come knockin on my door just a little upset.

could'nt have that.
And I bought it new.
Halfbreed

Leadlum · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2005, 12:59:06 PM »

I`m sorry to hear you are having problems with your 629. I just love mine and I`ve been through three ruger blackhawks and a vaqureo all in .44 mag and my 629-5 6"bbl just shoots WAY better than any ruger I ever had. Two blackhawks blew the front sight off, and I had to make new ones. The Vaqureo just shot Patterns no groups.And to the left too boot. It would be ok if you needed to shoot something inside the tent. I trade it this weekend. I will never trade or sell the smith.

halfbreed · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2005, 01:07:35 PM »

Leadlum, mine is a 629-5 3", I use to feel the way you do, I have carried mine concealed for right at 4 years now, i use to have all the confidanse in the world with it. not any more, too many breakdowns. Now it is sounding like an old Ford :eek:
Maybe S&W can do something with it, but as far as really trusting it, I just don't know?
If it comes back not any better than when it left, i will be getting rid of it, I would really like to get a Dan Wesson .44 mag. I would love to get a 4"bbl and a 8"bbl. for hunting purposes.That would just be the cat's meow I think. Halfbreed

Leadlum · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2005, 06:03:36 AM »

I hear you Halfbread. Sometimes you just get a lemon. I have heard nothing but good things about Dan Wesson. The silohuete guys swear by them. I hope your smith comes back all fixed though. Keep us posted. I`d like to know how they treat you.

halfbreed · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2005, 06:18:58 AM »

I will certainly keep ya posted on what is going on as i hear anything.
Halfbreed

halfbreed · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2005, 09:53:34 AM »

Today I received my 629 back at Gander Mountain. S&W returned in in just 12 days from the day it was shipped off. it was repaired, they just did not say what they did to it.
I will be at the range this week so long as the weather holds up! It sure does feel good to have it back, hopefully it will perform at the levels it should. I will find out soon, and let you all know.
Halfbreed

Leadlum · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2005, 10:11:36 AM »

Good luck halfbreed. I know the feeling to have your gun back. I just picked my S&W 1911 up this morning and I just got back from the range. It worked flawlessly, brass in a neat little pile. But with them three dot sights and stock trigger, I got 4-5" groups at 25yds standing. I`m sure that will improve. The win bulk ammo from wal-mart didn`t shoot as good as my reloads. Reloads were about an inch tighter, but only had 11 made up for testing. I`ll have to make up more of them!. good luck with your gun.

halfbreed · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2005, 01:12:34 PM »

Leadlum, good to hear about your .45, I bet you will get it to shooting better, getting the handloads just right sometimes takes time, is this auto new? good to hear from you, and keep us posted on the progress.
Halfbreed

halfbreed · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2005, 01:20:01 PM »

well criminy, I went to the range this morning, fired off 75 rounds, had a few times where I could hardly turn the cylinder, it locked up tight a few times, I continued to work with it, finally it locked up for good.
I brought it home, called S&W, they are sending a pickup from fed x. I talked with the gunsmith who fixed it, I tried the tricks he recommended. still no good. Somebody tell me this ain't happening!!!!!!
Tomorrow it goes back again, I have tried to be good, I ain't kicked no kittens or puppies, I even held the door for a lady the other day. What kind of Voodoo has somebody hexed me with? Now I askt ya?
Halfbreed

S.B. · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2005, 02:04:32 PM »

halfbreed, did Smith test fire this thing before sending it back to you? They didn't ask for some of your ammo, did they? Did you shoot factory or reloads today?

Gregory · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2005, 02:43:08 PM »

Quote from: halfbreed

well criminy, I went to the range this morning, fired off 75 rounds, had a few times where I could hardly turn the cylinder, it locked up tight a few times, I continued to work with it, finally it locked up for good.
I brought it home, called S&W, they are sending a pickup from fed x. I talked with the gunsmith who fixed it, I tried the tricks he recommended. still no good. Somebody tell me this ain't happening!!!!!!
Tomorrow it goes back again, I have tried to be good, I ain't kicked no kittens or puppies, I even held the door for a lady the other day. What kind of Voodoo has somebody hexed me with? Now I askt ya?
Halfbreed

Did your gunsmith check to be sure the ejector rod hadn't loosened up? My 624 will lock up like that if the rod starts to back out.

S.B. · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2005, 03:08:28 PM »

Actually, on anything as new as a 624 or 629, the rod should tighten up with operation. They are now left handed threaded. Older models, I could see this happening.

halfbreed · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2005, 06:50:07 PM »

S.B. I talked with the gunsmith today from S&W, the man who worked on it. He said he test fired it one full cylinder. It took probably 12-18 rounds before I actually knew something was going on. I was shooting reloads, near max for the powders, but I still had a few grains before I was max. They did not ask for any ammo.

Gregory, I checked the rod for being loose, I could back it out by hand, I tightened it down by hand tight, and it is still happening. I could probably get another 1/4 turn with padded pliers, and yes it is left hand threads, it should tighten down just by shooting it.

Thank you gentlemen for your ideas and tips, I greatly appreciate it.
Halfbreed

sawfish · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2005, 06:54:33 AM »

Halfbreed,

You might check a couple of things on your reloads. Two things come to mind which could cause the problem you mentioned. First, are the primers seated fully in the case. A high primer will cause cylinder drag/lock. Happens more often it seems with some of the progressives. I have stopped priming with the progressive press, and now do all priming by hand. IMHO, it seems the RCBS priming tool does not seat primers as deep as the Lee. This is probably caused by variances in shellholder thickness and/or variations between different brands/lots of brass. I recheck the primer seating before boxing loaded ammo. Stand the loaded rounds on a piece of plate glass (coffee table when the wife is not looking). If any of them rock, you have a high primer.

Second, are the cases entering all the way into the cylinder. Occurs more often if you are partially resizing with salvage brass which was fired in a gun having larger cylinder dimensions than yours, but can be caused by the variances mentioned above.

If you have some factory ammo on hand, I suggest you try a few cylinders to see if the same thing happens. No offense intended by these suggestions. I have been loading for almost 40 years, and still encounter the occasional reloading gremlin.

Hopefully, the problem is this simple. Regards.

S.B. · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2005, 08:10:45 AM »

Quote from: sawfish

Halfbreed,

First, are the primers seated fully in the case. A high primer will cause cylinder drag/lock. Happens more often it seems with some of the progressives. I have stopped priming with the progressive press, and now do all priming by hand. IMHO, it seems the RCBS priming tool does not seat primers as deep as the Lee. This is probably caused by variances in shellholder thickness and/or variations between different brands/lots of brass.

I've seen this also but, not when using all RCBS or Lee tools. Usually when I've used a RCBS shell holder with Lee die or other combinations. Manufactures probably have different dimensions on their own parts?
Also, can't tell you how many thousands of rounds I've loaded on Dillon 550 presses with out a problem? You can probably tell if it's your primers by simply straight edging them? They must be at least flush with the bottom of the case.

unspellable · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2005, 12:51:23 PM »

I have had a left handed ejector rod back out. Just to prove anything can happen I guess. I suspect that if loose enough the recoil can cause them to back out in spite of the cylinder turning the other direction.

halfbreed · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:35:42 PM »

ok gentlemen, some very good ideas, only a couple of problems in theory. I do not have a progressive yet, (dang it)
I use a lee precision primer tool, with lee shell holders, all primers are checked on a table top also.
This is some of the loaded ammo I had on hand shooting long before any problem like this non turning cylinder started happening. I feel confidant it is not the reloads, very well established loads in this pistol.
AND last but not least, it also does it with an EMPTY CYLINDER, it has me stumped, My smith at gander Mountain thinks the smith at S&W may have done something to the internals.
I did not get a fed X return envelope in the mail today, maybe tomorrow?
Thanks again for all the ideas, I appreciate it greatly!
Halfbreed