Author Topic: folding stock on a Handi? (Read 3469 times)

wganz · « **on:** May 04, 2012, 08:13:03 AM »

I'm looking at putting a Romanian AK side folder on an SB2 and drilling&tapping from the bottom for a pistol grip. Am looking for a compact carbine to stuff in a backpack.
Has anyone done or seen this done?

Quote

NFA34 restrictions on OAL would not apply if the length with stock extended is < 27".
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

RPRNY · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2012, 08:47:13 AM »

I have not seen or heard of one, but that means nothing. One or two may pop up in a few posts.

Instead of drilling and tapping from below the receiver, why not fashion a pistol grip from wood and use a standard stock bolt to mount on the receiver and then "hang" the folding stock off the pistol grip. It just seems a neater approach but perhaps you have arrived at the other method through a process of elimination...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2012, 08:58:07 AM »

I'd start with the Choate pistol grip and work out from there.

Tim

http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_page_detail.cfm?recordno=6&Product_CatalogID=2790&ProductNumber=19%2D03%2D02&ProductCode=1&ProductSubCodeID=267&NewProduct=0

ibgp3 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2012, 06:52:43 AM »

DEPENDING on the caliber.........
I will put one like this on my 22jet or .357.
I would not put one like this on a 30.06 or a .500sw.

The red background is what I got on ebay for $15
(search for: TIPPMANN FOLDING STOCK)
The yellow lines show where I cut it.
I have some pistol grips coming, but it is useable as is.

Here's another: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,259070.msg1099532127.html#msg1099532127

wganz · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:52:37 AM »

I was wanting to put a Romanian side folder like below:

on an SB2 with a LW .223 barrel from a youth gun reduced to 16.5".

The more I research this, the Bulgarian side folder stock:

Looks like a better option to get a pistol grip fitted properly. I've found a machinist/tool die maker that is willing to build a spacer between side folder stock and the receiver; but, he may be able to shape the Bulgarian without fabricating a spacer.

ibgp3 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »

Well I appreciate your suggestion.
My first pistol grip came in, and I like it.

I may make another one for it, but something like this is what my 300BLK will wear.
....again, thanks for the idea.

wganz · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2012, 05:04:28 PM »

Proverbial dumb question, how did you get the stock screw in that small space?

Quote from: ibgp3 on May 21, 2012, 06:52:43 AM

DEPENDING on the caliber.........
I will put one like this on my 22jet or .357.
I would not put one like this on a 30.06 or a .500sw.

The red background is what I got on ebay for $15
(search for: TIPPMANN FOLDING STOCK)
The yellow lines show where I cut it.
I have some pistol grips coming, but it is useable as is.

ibgp3 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:03:54 AM »

I cut a bolt off to be all-thread, the right length.
I started the bolt into the receiver.
The bolt goes into the hole I drilled in the stock mount, and a nut is threaded on the end. What shows in the picture is a nut.

I'll paint this one and put a barrel on it and take some more pictures.

Like this:

wganz · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:51:46 PM »

Quote from: ibgp3 on May 22, 2012, 06:03:54 AM

I cut a bolt off to be all-thread, the right length. I started the bolt into the receiver. The bolt goes into the hole I drilled in the stock mount, and a nut is threaded on the end. What shows in the picture is a nut.

That was what I thought but some people have the mad ninja machinist sk!11z that mere mortals like me don't have.

Quote from: ibgp3 on May 22, 2012, 06:03:54 AM

I'll paint this one and put a barrel on it and take some more pictures.Like this:

Looks nice!

I want to use an AK pistol grip since it is a bit smaller than the M16A2 style does. But that is exactly what I want to build but with a 16.5" barrel in .223.

Is that a 20" barrel you have in those pix?

ibgp3 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2012, 09:49:19 PM »

No Ninja sk!llz here, sorry.

I have several more types of grips coming, and a couple more folders. (I always figure to do something like this a couple of times to get it right.)

That barrel is 22", but I retouched the pics to make it look 16"

To be backpackable, this would need some kind of very solid optics. Any suggestions?

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2012, 12:49:07 AM »

The grip angle looks horrible...

ibgp3 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:41:11 AM »

Agreed.

It feels right, so I'll try others hoping to find one that feels right and looks better.

I'm also going to try a higher stockline.

I don't like how this one looks, but it feels like something I would use, and it folds.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2012, 03:18:06 AM »

By "looks horrible" i meant hightly uncomfortable/unnatural to hold. It goes completely against how the hand naturally wants to pivot to be comforatable...

I guess I don't understand the need for a folding stock on a handi, when (providing you install a takedown thumbscrew) you can take it apart or put it together in less than 30 seconds...

ibgp3 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2012, 03:59:50 AM »

"By "looks horrible" i meant hightly uncomfortable/unnatural to hold. It goes completely against how the hand naturally wants to pivot to be comforatable..."
[/size]Hold your elbow tight against your body, bring your hand up chin high, cup your fingers. Notice the angle. It isn't what I expected.

[/size]"I guess I don't understand the need for a folding stock on a handi"
No offense, but if you aren't interested, why 2 entries in the thread?

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2012, 04:31:37 AM »

Quote

Hold your elbow tight against your body, bring your hand up chin high, cup your fingers. Notice the angle. It isn't what I expected.

I've shot all kinds of firearms that have pistol grips, none of which were ergonomically backwards...

And also please don't take my question out of context because your offended that i'm not automatically on board with your tacti-cool handi project,

With the addition of a very accessable thumbscrew you can literally take down or assemble a handi in about the same time it takes to unfold one and get into position. The advantage of this is that it's much lighter and more egonomic that what your working with. Not to mention you would have a better cheek alignment that would remove the need of you designing a cheek rest on your folder.

Also, If your dead set on having a folder/pistolgrip why not get a pistol grip adapter and work from there?

ibgp3 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2012, 04:37:26 AM »

I am not offended, and didn't intend any offense.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2012, 04:46:34 AM »

Quote

I am not offended, and didn't intend any offense.

Ok, just making sure...

Quote

why 2 entries in the thread?

Because I'm still curious of the advantages of your design over one that utilizes parts already produced by H&R that easily takes down and fits in a pack, or small suitcase... Not to mention lighter and more ergonomic...

canon6 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »

wganz, not trying to put a wet blanket on your idea,but have you ever shot a 223/5.56 out of a 16.5 inch barrel??? the muzzle flash is a sight to behold.I had a Remington pump gun(I forgot the model number ) it had a 16 inch barrel, and according to bystanders" you could cook smores on that thing" and the flash was plainly visable to the shooter,HTH> Doug

ibgp3 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2012, 02:26:10 AM »

Years ago I had an XP in .308,
Factory loads were like a flash grenade.
Punishing to be around.
Pistol powders produced a lot less or no flash.

wganz · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:29:51 AM »

Quote from: canon6 on May 23, 2012, 09:29:16 AM

wganz, not trying to put a wet blanket on your idea,but have you ever shot a 223/5.56 out of a 16.5 inch barrel??? the muzzle flash is a sight to behold.I had a Remington pump gun(I forgot the model number ) it had a 16 inch barrel, and according to bystanders" you could cook smores on that thing" and the flash was plainly visable to the shooter,HTH> Doug

I've got a couple of SBR's on Form 1's with 11.5" barrels. Yeah, they've got a bark. But good Flash Hiders / Muzzle Brakes make a difference.

I intend on putting an M16A2 flash hider on it.

kid_couteau · « **Reply #20 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:52:28 AM »

I for one would LOVE to see someone come out with a factory made folding stock for the Handi.

ACE brand would be great...expensive but great.

20 gauge with 18.5" barrel with a folding stock? Perfect for backpack.

I started to make one with an AK-47 underfolder stock. Has potential but way too heavy.

Kid

canon6 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 24, 2012, 11:42:02 AM »

That is what I did with the Remington, solved the problem.Good luck. Doug

bilmac · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2012, 11:59:58 AM »

Why not take it apart at the hinge? Then both parts are closer to the same length.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2012, 04:21:44 PM »

I can see the advantage of having a folder , carried at the top of the pack it could be easly accessed and not have to put it together before shooting , I carried a cut down 16G like that for many years hiking , its loaded and out of the way till needed , I have just switched over to a handgun instead the last few years now though .

stimpy

blind ear · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2012, 05:33:36 AM »

The grip angle looks ergonomically (?) ok but I wondered if it would effect the triger pull enough to make a difference. With that angle the squeez will be more down than back. Do you have to compensate with the trigger finger movement?
-
Also on further thought: Prone position angle will possibly be too sharp for the wrist. Standing or upright fireing positions only? No lieing on the belly and propping across the forearm? ear

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #25 on:** May 25, 2012, 06:19:47 AM »

Quote

The grip angle looks ergonomically (?) ok but I wondered if it would effect the triger pull enough to make a difference. With that angle the squeez will be more down than back.

This is the exact point i'm trying to make. The pistol grip is backwards to the way the hand and wrist naturally contorts to pull the trigger comfortably. Also when dealing with the handi's a consistant trigger pull straight back is essential to accuracy. He really needs to correct the grip angle with an adaptor from the ATI collapsible kit and then install the folder from there.

I'm not totally against the idea of a folder on a handi. It just doesn't make sence to screw up your shooting form and sacrifice basic fundimentals for a cool concept.

kid_couteau · « **Reply #26 on:** May 25, 2012, 06:36:30 AM »

But it is a prototype isn't it?

I don't imagine the Wright Brothers got it the first time either.
Takes time to get it right.

Kid

ibgp3 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 25, 2012, 11:30:28 AM »

I didn't try this one prone, I didn't figure to be using it prone.
It works for me off-hand. I don't think a folder is a universal application that needs to work for everyone in all positions. I know my folder doesn't have to work for anyone but me.

I won't be selling these. I invite any and all interested persons to attach a grip in whatever way suits them, when they build their own.

A couple of old expressions:
Some of you may have never heard of this one:
twwadi (The way we've always done it.) pronounced "tawadi" used as a short-hand way of refering to the attitude that innovation and improvements are impossible, and any attempt is criminal, or at least irritating.

I think everyone has heard of this one.
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

By the way:
When you build your own, please post pics.

Pictures touched up to square off the bottom of the grip:

oldsoldja · « **Reply #28 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:02:34 PM »

I have one on my ruger 1022 that I was thinking about modifying, Id like an under folder.

ibgp3 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2012, 10:40:49 PM »

How about this one?!

...but then, just the stock is $2750.00