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Offline cwlongshot

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Another range day post...
« on: December 29, 2011, 12:26:49 PM »
I had a hour or so today and needed to zero a rifle I mounted a base, scope and rings on for a friend...SO I brought two handis along too. ::)
 
The rifle was a old Savage, bolt. I mounted one base, a ring and a tiny little red dot to. 5-6 shots and it was shooting about an inch ay 50 yards dead on. He will be happy. But I fear the raccoon, skunk or possum in his garbage tonight will not be so well off... ;D ;D
 
I changed the stocks on my 32-20 and wanted to see of the zero had shifted. It did not!
Here is three rounds of 100G XTP going about 2200fps. Shot @ 50 yards

 
Then I moved the target back to 100 and fired three more.

 
That's pretty good I think! I also brought a couple 125G Hornady's and some 123G Midway bullets. Both with same primer and charge of 4227 powder.
Here is a 100 yard group with the Hornady's.

 
Here is a 100 yard group with the Midways...

 
I would have NEVER guessed a simple bullet change would result in such a difference! I was out of time and did not go back and re shoot the Hornady's to check if something happened. I can't imagine anything did.... but it would better explain the difference... More later.
 
Then I also took the shorty maxi and some 170GD bullets and 1680 powder.
 
Not so good... BUT I haven't gotten good groups form this barrel since pruning. So I need to investigate better...

 
CW
 

 
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 01:04:00 PM »
CW,
  You're tempting me with those 32-20 groups. ;D  Also, maybe that Maxi barrel likes heavier bullets, like those fired from a .356 Win (re) chamber. ;)


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 01:22:58 PM »
Quote from: -Dinny on December 29, 2011, 01:04:00 PM
CW,
  You're tempting me with those 32-20 groups. ;D  Also, maybe that Maxi barrel likes heavier bullets, like those fired from a .356 Win (re) chamber. ;)


Thanks, Dinny

Could be... but this barrel was a honest 1" shooter with my 180 g SSP & 1680..... before pruning. ::)  I think its my crown, Gonna have someone with a lathe tru it properly and see what I get.
 
CW
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 02:07:11 PM »
I never realized a 32-20 could get such impressive velocity out of a rifle, no wonder everyone likes that cartridge so much!
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2011, 12:57:53 AM »
Quote from: Doublebass73 on December 29, 2011, 02:07:11 PM
I never realized a 32-20 could get such impressive velocity out of a rifle, no wonder everyone likes that cartridge so much!

Oh yea, modern propellents have NOT forgotten the old timers!!! 2400, #9, H110, 296 and lil gun really get these bullets moving!!!
 
I am playing with H4227 and the 125G bullets..I am at about 1600fps and no real pressures.
 
Plus there is some new bullets with the popularity of the 327 mag. Speer brought out a 115G jacketed bullet. Besided the excellent 85 and 100 XTPs.  Hornady used to make a 60G, man could you get that one moving!!
 
Yesterday I spoke with a friend with a lathe. I am going to have him trim 1/4" off the amxi and add a recessed crown. Hopefully I will have it back in a couple weeks to go shoot it some more!! (Crossing fingers accuracy returns)
 
CW
 
EDIT: I should have the barrel back next week!!  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline petemi

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 09:26:45 AM »
Spanky turned me on to that 2200 fps .32-20, 100 gr. XTP over H100.  My Handi loves it.  It's the most accurate....and deadly combination I've found.  I also use W296 with the same results.  Again, no pressure signs.  I've had the same results with the .357 158 gr. XTP pushed fast in Magnum mode.  George Mann and I have the same idea to drop back down to 158 gr. pushed hard in the Maxi after his son's recent success on deer.  I've got several bullet types to experiment with.  I  have found that just about any rifle I try XTPs in they like them moving along.

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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 01:05:46 PM »
You guys are making me want a 32-20!  ;D
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 05:52:47 AM »
Quote from: Doublebass73 on December 31, 2011, 01:05:46 PM
You guys are making me want a 32-20!  ;D

You would LOVE IT!!!
 
I pulled the barrel off the Maxi yesterday, I removed the scope and rings and base too... Everything was fine. (Was thinking of the 500 problems as I did this.....)  my friend has the barrel. I was looking at the reciever and checking pin protrusion as I had a dud bullet and knoticed some grease on the latch.... I grabbed a Qtip and some solvent and found more under the lug!!
 
Just mention this to show everyone can have accuracy problems and a thrurough "look see"will many times reveal the problems...
 
I'll have the barrel back at the end of the week and hopefully I can go shoot it shortly afterwards.
CW
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2012, 06:56:36 AM »
I have always wanted the 32/20 handi, I have dies, brass and mold from a contender barrel, but the guys here also seemed to have a bit of "magnumitis" in wanting to go bigger, not smaller. I campaigned for a 327 also then, and all the 357 guys were "pooh poohin' the idea, saying just pour less powder in the magnum or maxi case. It looks like I am going to finally reduced to trying for a 300 AAC as my best nearest alternative to the 32 of my heart. What is it about people that when you want a beagle to run rabbits, they tell you to go ahead and get a rottweiler and teach him to just run slower and bark quietly? ??? I WISH they made a 32/20, and  25/20. So much for wishing. If the 300AAC does come out, since I see how close it is, I will order one. Is it not IRONIC that a cartridge that is well over a century old does almost the same thing as the newest offering, the old one was very popular in single shot. Now the new one which is designed for use in semi and fully auto rifles is being put into single shots to promote the CARTRIDGE ? The 32/20 IS  8) 8) 8) . If I cannot get that, I intend to cut a rim into that 300AAC so I can use either 223 or 357 cases. A mans gotta do..........
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 03:45:31 PM »
What ever you get Tim its gonna be fun shooting it!!!
 
I got a call today.... My friend finished the crown on my Maxi barrel!!!  Its silver and for some reason the camera will not precisely focus but I have two pics that are not bad... I told him I wanted it recessed, he got fancy and did a 11 degree crown recessed...



 
I also discovered another problem... I have for a very long time been plagued with quite an off center pin strike. I decided that because I had the rec apart to check and adjust protrusion I would fix the off center hits once and for all.... What I found I was not prepared for...
 
The breech is out of square ever so slightly so when I shimmed the barrel to fit ( .004 steel shim stock) it actually gave me a false lock up as the barrel kinda slid back and about .025 up and locked tightly. I squared the breech, (almost .002 out) and put it back together. It seems like it needs more thickness at the shim. I removed the shim as I wanted to fire a primer to check alignment and it was almost perfectly centered. With the new .006 shim I had a misfire! I tried again, click. Now I set the protrusion at .045 so I know that's enough, there is a EX Power spring in there... but remember that first primer popped perfectly... I removed the shim and fired again, same primer with two strikes, BANG... OK something is happening here and I cannot see it. I removed the guts again and put the barrel on and really looked with a magnifier and good lighting. That barrel is nice and square to the breech, its not touching anywhere sans the breech (when I hold it back in position. Then I pop out the little "window" in the receiver. (Only on newer receivers and I just fit this receiver about two weeks ago) BINGO! The barrel doesn't need a shim at the hinge, it needs it at the shelf!! Otherwise my fav barrel is a tomato stake!!!
 
So i made up a .020 thick piece of stock that lied on the latch shelf, bent and lied on the face and bent again and wrapped completely under the lug and rested about .125 down the under side of the lugs bottom. Fit pretty well so I could install and close the action... WALLA!! 90% of the slop was gone and BANG first primer popped. But the latch was all the way up and I still had some slop. So I made another form .030 stock. That one was a bit tight upon closing action, but the lock up was nearly spot on. With about 3/4 of the tab up and some slop at the latch button but rock solidly barrel to rec lock up. Looking inside window at engagement, its a bit more then half the latch.
Now how to attach it... I have some epoxy a friend gave me years ago that was used to attach carbide tips to drills. That oughta work!!  ;)  I mixed up a dab and cleaned the surfaced with degrease and a brush, then flushed and whipped with a clean lint free cloth. Glued the shim in place and clamped it with a "C" clamp.
 
That little window was the ticket I needed to see what was going on. The barrel being out of square thru me off too... I will need to file some off the face of the shim so the barrel closes freely. (It just touches now) but other then that if the engagement is even across the entire latch its good! I hope the epoxy holds... don't see why or how it would not...
 
More later...
 
CW
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 04:01:48 PM »
CW,
  Looking good! I hope you have that problem fixed and it turns back into a favorite amongst favorites.


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 11:11:55 AM »
Thanks Dinny!
 
Well I am ECSTATIC!!! I got home tonight and headed right down to the loading room... Pulled off the clamp and dressed the edges with a file. Then dressed the bottom and trued the engagement surfaces. Then the moment of truth..... I put it on the receiver and snapped it closed. It did with a satisfying clunk. Tight as a drum, about half the releases stroke remains and the latch engages the new shelf right at 1/2 and centered.
 
I did not take a pic of the piece I added before epoxying it in place, but here is a couple pics of it in place. I think you can see it well enough to know what I did. I think you can just make out the edges of the steel I wrapped around the shelf...


 
Its nice and tight and extremely positive. I trimmed the hammer too, but had not yet finished polishing and bluing. Here is a little video:

 
I wanted to try out this old tactical scope I have had for years. Its a short, lighted reticule 4x20 with a post. Its not really that handi friendly as its eye piece is pretty large necessitating me to go with a taller ring. I'm not thrilled with silver rings. But they are good quality and the right height. So for now, they will work.  ;)



I also somewhat changed my miss centered pin strike. Its not 100% but its better as for reliability! Top pic shows I occasionally had to fire twice to get it to go off. Deeper strike is first and was the FTF, shallower is what ignited the powder...

BEFORE:

 
AFTER:


 
Stay tuned...RANGE DAY SATURDAY!!!!!!!!  ;D
 
CW
 
 
 

 
 
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 02:27:54 PM »
Well I got the to the range today... altho it was a beautiful day with temps into the 60's!! I did not have "fun"...
 
I had the shorty Maxi set aside as its too short to stand in the rifle rack. I gathered all the ammo, Spotting scope, rest sand bags. Then gun cases and finally firearms. I brought my 25-35, 17M2, FL Maxi, 454, 22Hornet, 25-20 Savage and 30-30.
You will notice I did not mention the Shorty maxi... thats cause I FORGOT IT!! Strike one against me... :'( :'(
Shot the 25-35 first. This was new loading of a old favorite bullet... 117 Hornady RN. It was a faster loading and grouped nearly in one hole at 50 yards. Out at 100 it was about 1.25" but that's fine as that's about as far as I will be needing it to shoot.
 
Next up the 454. This one was refit to a new receiver and HD springs added to the latch. I refit it because I was able to swap it between the FL Maxi and remove all shims from both! It was printing all over the place. :-\  This gun shot quite well last year with other receiver. The lock up is as perfect as I can attain, forend torqued and floated. I also had 5-6 FTF's that never happened before, but DID occasionally happen when it was on the FL maxi. SO looks like I have something going on with that receiver. Back in the case, with notes on its performance. Strike two... :-\ :-[ ???
 
Next up Hornet... This one got new stocks. I moved the yellow and black from the maxi to the Hornet. this gun always shot great with my two main loadings. 35G bullet and Lil Gun and 45G SP and 4198. One hole at 50 and at or under 1" at 100. It proved to be just as good, BUT NOW SHOT 6" HIGH!!!! Just changing stocks, same forend torque, 6" high same ammo at same distances... No big deal but interesting. Still a great shooter.
 
Next up 30-30. This one got a new receiver too. I bought it form a friend and it fit nearly perfect to the 30-30 barrel. Same loads shot right on NO scope adj needed!! I was amazed to say the least. This gun is a solid 1.25- 1.50" shooter at 100 and its no difference now.
 
Next was the 25-20. I added a Red Dot last week and also loaded up some hot 86G bullets. The shoot great and seem to be going faster then the 75FP Speers I have been shooting as they hit higher. It shoots about 1" at 50 and about 3" at 100. (Remember its a red dot, not so precise.)

Next the FL Maxi. This one has a new receiver because I was able to swap and remove all shims. This one has been shot a bit but never really sighted in. I had brought 7 different loads to check accuracy of both maxis once and for all. (Did not happen :'( ) Well after two loads and not so great accuracy I noticed the butt stock getting loose. Not awful but loose, accuracy is not attainable with a loose butt stock. Lo and behold, accuracy was getting worse as 4" hundred yard groups.SO instead of wasting bullets I cased it... Strike three for me..
 
Lastly the 17M2. This one is my all time most accurate H&R. I removed its walnut thumb-hole stocks fr a set of hard wood checkered monte carlos. It shoots spot on no change. I meant to bring Hornady bullets to try but forgot those too... My buddie has grown quite fond of this little shooter! He was shooting the 1/2" pasters every time at 100 yards.... ;)
 
SO now I need to go back with the maxis and 454 to get them sited... I hope!!!
 
CW
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 02:43:20 PM »
CW,
  That sounds just like every range trip I make... ;)  You'll get it all straightened out even if it takes a hundred trips, just like me. ;D


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2012, 05:47:18 AM »
I'm sure glad to read I'm not the only one that has days like that including forgetting a rifle, last summer I drove 100 miles into the mountains for a day of shooting and forgot one of the rifles that needed load work! :-[ Hang in there CW, you'll git er done!  ;)

Tim
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2012, 03:45:23 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on January 08, 2012, 05:47:18 AM
I'm sure glad to read I'm not the only one that has days like that including forgetting a rifle, last summer I drove 100 miles into the mountains for a day of shooting and forgot one of the rifles that needed load work! :-[ Hang in there CW, you'll git er done!  ;)

Tim

Thanks Tim! ;)
 I realized I forgot it as I parked the truck... at the range.  Why it took THAT LONG to be realized... I will never know. It was like someone whispered in my ear (Hey dumb ass, you left the ONE rifle you REALLY wanted to shoot in the loading room...)
 I was quite mad at myself.... No one to blame but me... I guess CRS has set in, its all down hill from here...  ::) ;)
 
BUT I am all ready again!! I THINK I have fixed both the 454 and FL Maxi... ??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D
 
CW
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 02:46:33 AM »
Hope ya get it all straightened out CW.  That CRS is becomeing an old friend to me.  Helps with my exercise though, I go somewhere to get something, forget what and have to go back where I was to try to remember and IF I do, another walk back to get it. ::)   DP
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 12:44:32 PM »
I will survive... But I AM kinda chomping at the bit because I have a job to do this weekend and will not be able to get to the range... MAYBE I will get a chance next week but If no, I am gonna have to wait until the following weekend....
 
I have a range box all ready, filled with Maxis and Casull ammo, a spotting scope, sand bags and three guns in cases. ALL IN ONE ROOM READY TO GO!!  ::) ::) ::) ;)
 
CW
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 02:52:37 PM »
CW,
 
Thanks for the pics of your latch shelf shim.   I have to shim the shelf on my 270 barrel and your repair gives me something else to think about.  Going to try the shim with silver sodier instead of glue, will see how it works.
 
I have left just about anything one could forget on my many range adventures.  My favorite CRS moment was while hunting.  I walked in about mile and half in very hilly terrian for the opener of a late deer gun season.  Took my Marlin 512 bolt slug gun.  It would have been a more effective deer weapon had I not left the bolt in the gun case, back in my truck. :-[   
 
BB
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 02:59:32 PM »
BB,
 Silver solder will be much better and longer lasting then any glue!!!  Take pics along the way and post up the results... Tim has nto had allot of things to add to the FAQ's lately... :o ::) ::)
 
CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 04:35:43 PM »
Like Ragu, it's in there!!  ;D

Tim
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Offline MSM

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 02:14:20 PM »
 Nice work CW.


  MSM
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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 11:42:36 AM »
Lets try again... (Note to self NEVER CLICK SPELL CK!!!)
 
I got to the range today!! I did not even have an hour so I only brought three loadings. But she shot really well!
 
First out was the 205 RCBS cast lead GC bullets. It took me 4 shots to get centered. I then moved right to 100 and fired off the rest of the box for group:
 

 
Then I fired three 180 SSPs with my load of 1680 powder again at 100yds (The extra holes are 25/20's from my savage):
 

 
Lastly I mistakenly brought the 125G Sierra SP bullets and H110 powder. MAN are these flame throwers!!! The fire ball is almost a 5Gal pail in size!!!! These shot OK maybe 3" at 100, but I did not take a pic.
 
Here is my crown after all the lead shooting:

 
Overall I am quite happy. I need to rework my loads but all bullets grouped in nice groups. Nothing was real tight but I experienced no flyers.
 
CW
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2012, 12:00:55 PM »
I'm glad to read it's coming back around. It won't be long and you'll be shooting cloverleafs with it again.  ;)


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline petemi

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Re: Another range day post...
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2012, 02:23:34 PM »
I only have to go 50 yards from the shooting bench to the gun room......it still takes me about 25 trips.  I think it's advanced CRS. :-\

Pete
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