Author Topic: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?  (Read 4843 times)

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Offline skarke

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Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« on: November 30, 2009, 09:40:21 PM »
Simple enough question.  They used to make (I think it was interarms) a Browning 22 auto takedown copy as well.
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Offline mannyrock

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 08:16:36 AM »


    Interarms never made the Mark X action.  They were merely an importer, located in Alexandria, Virginia.  The actions were, and are still, made in the former Yugoslavia, by I think the CZ company.

  And there are thousands of used Mark X rifles out there, in used near-excellent condition, that can be had for $375 to $425 with some hard-core bargaining at a large gunshow.  So, who needs a new one??

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Mannyrock

Offline Swampman

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 08:39:00 AM »
I just sold a very nice .270 with a Simmons 3-9x40 for $200.00. I had a heck of a time selling it. As soon as I handed it to someone they'd say it was too heavy & hand it back.
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Offline mannyrock

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 10:01:46 AM »

   I agree Swampy.   The current crop of hunters in their 20s and 30s were raised on mountain rifles, and Remington Model 7s.  They ain't impressed by an 8 pound rifle, just because it has a mauser action.

Mannyrock

Offline drdougrx

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 01:49:27 PM »
That's a shame about the weight thing...although I use it as a make or break criteria more than I ever used to.  I also remember when you could buy a new Interarms MkX barreled action for about $250 in any caliber you would want.  They were made by Zastava I think...were they swallowed up by CZ????  Those were the days......
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 02:01:46 PM »
Remington was importing them for awhile as the 798 & 799.  Charles Daly has them now I think.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline mechanic

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 02:37:06 PM »
My Dad had three, one in 375H&H, one in 25-06, one in 270 with a full stock and set triggers.  The weight came in handy with the 375.  He sold them before he died.   I would REALLY like that 270 back.
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Offline One Eye

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 03:32:21 PM »
It's amazing how quickly younger shooters will want more weight when they try to shoot those light rifles in some stouter calibers  ;)
Dan
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 04:55:00 PM »
What was the Mark ten,is currently being imported by European American Armory in Florida. Look for United States Sporting goods or search for USSG, these are still made by Zastava in what is now Serbia.

Offline bcp

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 05:11:04 PM »
Last year I was able to buy a new Interarms Mark X action with a Timney trigger.  It became the basis for a custom rifle which I was able to shoot last Friday for the first time.  Here is the story about it I wrote up for my family (mostly Granddad, now 97).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


All –

In August of 2008 I bought a new-in-the-box Interarms Mark X rife action that was set up for use with .30-06-sized cartridges (.25-06 Rem, .270 Win, .280 Rem, .30-06, .338-06, .35 Whelen, etc.).  In November Stockystocks.com had Boyd laminated and pre-fit stocks on sale and I bought one.  For the next several months I spent a lot of time trying to decide what kind of barrel to put on it.  The final contestants were a .338-06, possibly in the Ackey Improved configuration, and a 6.5mm-06 Ackley Improved.  The more I learned about the ballistics of 6.5mm bullets and their suitability for long range shooting, the more I leaned in that direction.  Eventually I decided to build a poor man’s long range rifle using the 6.5mm caliber, with hopes that the rifle would be good for targets out to at least 1,000 yards and preferably to 1,200 or even 1,500 yards.  (Going beyond that requires a whole different level of equipment and expense.)  On June 1st of this year I placed an order with Krieger Barrels to build the barrel and do the necessary gunsmithing.  The completed rifle finally arrived on October 23rd, just a week before elk season.
 
Yesterday, for the first time, I was able to get to the range and shoot the rifle.  Originally I had put a spare Leupold M8 fixed-power 4x on it just so I would have something to aim with when shooting fire-form  loads.  A few days ago I swapped scopes with my Remington M700 .30-06 which had a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14xAO with Ballistic Plex reticle.  That left me with two rifles that needed to be zeroed.  The .30-06 accompanied me to the range yesterday, partly so I could zero it and partly so I would have something to shoot while the 6.5-06AI barrel cooled.  (A good barrel will last several thousand rounds if properly treated but you can burn them out in less than 100 if you cook them.)

Here’s the 6.5-06 AI rifle.  It has a new Interarms Mark X action (one of the better commercial Mauser actions but not available for some  years now), Timney trigger, Krieger 6.5-06 Ackely Improved barrel (stainless, fluted and hand-lapped with a 1-8 twist), and is glass bedded and free-floated in  a Boyd stock.  The action face was trued, the barrel threads were cleaned up and the bolt lugs were lapped to help improve accuracy.  The engraving on this side of the barrel reads “Coyote Hunter”.  The barrel is a “heavy sporter” contour which makes it somewhat heavy with the center of balance well forward of the action.  Eventually I might add some lead weight in the butt of the stock to bring the center of balance back and further reduce recoil – this rifle isn’t intended to be going up and down mountains after elk so the extra weight, which will further help accuracy, won’t be a big detriment.  If this rifle goes hunting it will be light varminting (occasional prairie dogs and coyotes) and big game in situations where bipods or solid rests are used, it is never far from the truck (less than a mile, probably much less), and shots tend to be on the longish side.  It would have been perfect for some of the hunting I did this year where the access road was up high on one side of a valley, the elk were in thickets on the far side and shots would have ranged from 200 yards out to 800 yards and further.



I started at the 100 yard covered range to get on paper and set the point of impact at 100 yards, about 2-1/2" high for both rifles.    My fire-form  loads were pussycats in the AI, Hornady 140g A-MAX bullets over 49.0g H4831SC and running a very consistent 2669fps to 2680fps for a six-shot sample.  (Hornady lists 49.4g at 2800fps for the standard 6.5-06.  When I develop loads with the formed cases I expect to get about 3150fps with the same bullet.)  My .30-06 load was another pussycat, a Hornady 168g A-MAX over 51.0g BL-C(2) for about 2635fps average.  (Normally I would run bullets this weight at around 2900-2950fps, but these loads were developed for plinking fun and ease of reloading.)

Here's a fire form load using a .25-06 case necked up to hold the Hornady 6.5mm 140g A-MAX bullet and a fire formed 6.5-06 Ackley Improved case on the left.  The -06 case walls get blown out to a more parallel configuration and the shoulder gets moved forward and made steeper, both of which add  case capacity and allow higher velocities.  The primary reason I went with the 6.5-06 Ackley Improved instead of the standard .6.5-06 was I wanted to prevent the possibility of a 6.5mm load getting into a .25-06 chamber.  ( I don’t have a .25-06 yet, but you never know...)  A second reason was that I wanted to use cheap cases.  While properly headstamped 6.5-06AI cases are available, they cost about $2.00 each.  By contrast I can buy .25-06 cases for about $0.40 each.  I’ll probably end up with about 200 cases so the difference really adds up.  (I could also use .270 Win or .280 Rem or even .30-06 cases and form them but the neck walls would be thickened during the necking-down process and the necks would need to be reamed, something I avoid by using .25-06 cases.)



After satisfying myself at the 100 yard range I headed to the longer range where I put clay pigeons on the 400 yard berm and painted the steel gongs at 500 yards.  Here’s a look at the shooting area.  My position was at the far end.


My first shot with the 6.5-06AI was at a 500 yard gong.  Having never fired the rifle before today and only then out to 100 yards for sight-in, I had to guess at the bullet drop.  The third hash mark down from center in the Ballistic Plex reticle seemed appropriate and it was – I rang the gong three times in succession.  (As I write this I realize I had my iPhone with me at the range.  There is not one but TWO ballistic programs on it – guess I could have calculated the drop...)

In the picture below the long, horizontal dark line in the center of the picture is the shadow of the 500-yard target boards, visible below the boards themselves.  The shorter, less distinct and somewhat lighter dark line just above it is the shadow of the 600 yard boards.  You can just see the two orange gongs to the right of the 500 yard target boards (they look like a single bright spot).  Also notice the shine on the bench – we got new welded steel benches and stools, replacing the wooden ones that wobbled badly after a just a short period of use and had to be replaced constantly.   The new benches are a great improvement!



More shooters arrived and a cease fire was called to set up targets and I took the opportunity to move one of the gongs back to 600 yards.  When the range went hot I decided to try using the lower thick-thin transition point for aiming.  I cranked the scope up to 14x and promptly missed the 600 yard gong, just off to the right.  Holding just to the left of the gong fixed the problem and I rang it several times in a row before deciding to let the barrel cool.

Next up was the .30-06 with its pokey 2635fps loads.  The clay pigeons on the 400-yard berm were barely visible at 4x so I decided t try the gongs at 500 yards.  The Leuplod M8 has a plain, fine-line crosshair reticle and I had to guess about the holdover.  Nevertheless my first shot rang a 500 yard gong, as did each successive shot.

Letting the .30-06 cool, I tried a couple shots at the 400 yard clay pigeons with the 6.5-06AI but couldn’t quite get the windage and elevation – flying dirt showed hit was easily in the kill zone of even an antelope, but a miss is a miss. I bounced back and forth between the two rifles, ringing the 500 and 600 yard gongs with both.  Too easy. 

Another cease fire was called and I put a clay pigeon on the 600 yard berm.  My first shot with the 6.5-06AI was just to the right, the second just over the top.  The third shot hit it pretty much dead center, leaving the lower half more or less intact.  Not bad for randomly selected fire-form  loads...



Another cease fire and another clay pigeon on the 600 yard berm.  My second shot took it out.  This was fun!



I tried the 400 yard pigeons again, and this time I got the windage and elevation correct (there basically wasn’t any wind but the scope was set to shoot a bit to the right).  Several pigeons bit the dust before I called it a day.

Including the sight-in rounds, only 24 of the .30-06 plinker loads and 44 of the 6.5mm-06AI fire-form  loads were fired during the course of the day.  The .30-06 proved to be quite capable of hitting the 500 and 600 yard gongs with a simple 4x scope, which surprised me.  The 6.5-06AI, which I had never fired before, was able to take out clay pigeons at the 600 yard line with a randomly selected fire-form  load, which surprised me even more.  (I have a jug of H4831SC powder that I don’t use any more and Hornady had a 6.5-06 load for H4831 – it turned out to be a very happy combination.)   In fact, the most difficult shots I took all day were the first few shots at the clay pigeons on the 400 yard berm.  While I don’t claim to be a great long distance shot, I think this experience demonstrates that one needn’t, as some people claim, shoot hundreds or even thousands of rounds with a particular weapon or have expensive equipment to be able to place bullets in the kill zone at ranges out to 600 yards.  (That said, the wind is the biggest bugaboo at that range and a hunter needs to be willing to pass on a shot.)

It was all much easier than putting bullets in the kill zone of a running animal at 50 or 100 yards...
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Sweetwater

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 05:35:18 PM »
Great stuff!!
My Dad got one of these actions back in the early '80's and had Bill Morrison (Bangor & Bradford, Maine) cut a real slender barrel at 20 inches and ream a tight 30-06 chamber. Dad fitted a full-stock to it and mounted a Redfield scope the company gave him for a retirement gift. He took it to Montana on an elk hunt in '82. He did manage a small muley buck, but the elk eluded him. In '92, he brought it to Wyoming and I guided him into the first of his four elk. He really loved that rifle. I never cared for the full-stock, so when he asked if I wanted it, I was careful not to hurt his feelings as I declined the offer. After all, I did have the other 14 long guns that were in his cabinet. Did I really need another? It all turned out well, as he really wanted to give it to his grandson - my son! So, I get to keep it anyway, until my son has his own place!! The Interarms MarkX is a great action, and fits well with my mil-surp 98Mausers, though it is way smoother, being a commercial action. Another Great One!

Regards,
Sweetwater
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Offline skarke

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2009, 12:34:43 PM »
Thanks guys, great info.  I remember about 20 years ago one could obtain a barreled action for 185 from Brownells I think.  Seems that they have gone up a hair.  I've always liked the 98 action, but I'm a lefty.  Mostly, I thought that these would make fine platforms for my boys.  I used to tinker heavily in stockwork, and I thought that it would be nice to make a couple of real pretty walnut stocks for christmas.

Maybe next year.
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Offline jcn59

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 06:31:23 AM »
I just bought a Gunbroker .270 on a commercial mauser action for a bit more than $200.   The metal was like new & not even in need of a reblue.   The deals are still out there.
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Offline anweis

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2009, 07:03:19 AM »
It's amazing how quickly younger shooters will want more weight when they try to shoot those light rifles in some stouter calibers  ;)
Dan

My local gun store has a 5 1/2 lbs. TC Encore with a .375 H&H barrel on it for sale. The owner says it was fired three times. Gee, it took them 3 shots to figure it....

Offline WL44

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 12:48:58 AM »
I thought the Interarms X was a Zastava not a CZ. Later Charels Daly brought them into the US. Then Rem bought the import rights for the 798 (action made by Zastava) and Charles Daly lost those rights. That's how I had the story, but then I'm in South Africa, not the US, so I may be totally off the X Mark with it  ;D. This was all hearsay through the firearms press etc. over the years.

Offline davem270win

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 02:51:55 AM »
I've hunted for 30-some years with a Mark X Mannlicher in 270, and I like the gun very much. But recently, I have left it home sometimes because of the weight. I do wish I would have picked up a Whitworth model while they were available.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 03:16:27 AM »
I thought the Interarms X was a Zastava not a CZ. Later Charels Daly brought them into the US. Then Rem bought the import rights for the 798 (action made by Zastava) and Charles Daly lost those rights. That's how I had the story, but then I'm in South Africa, not the US, so I may be totally off the X Mark with it  ;D. This was all hearsay through the firearms press etc. over the years.

You are correct, the Interarms Mark X actions were made by Zastava.  Or at least mine was, as indicated by the word "Zastava" stamped on the action...
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Offline JPShelton

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 09:32:55 PM »
I do wish I would have picked up a Whitworth model while they were available.

I had two of those Interarms Whitworths once upon a time.  One was a .270 which was a pretty nice shooter.  Not great, mind you, but nice.  The other was a 300 Win. Mag. which wasn't so nice.

I bought both on the same day because I couldn't decide which of the two I wanted more.  Neither of them stayed in my collection long.  To me, they just didn't quite capture the essence of the Mauser 98 experience nearly as well as some other choices with the Model 98 Mauser action.  As an example, a guy in our hunting camp had a Husqvarna branded as a J.C. Higgins that DID capture the essence of the Mauser 98 experience well.  It was a plain looking gun, but very well made.  The Whitworths were pretty from a distance, but less so up close.

Having shot the "real deal," the Whitworths were kind of disappointing.  When I parted with them, the plan was to seek out a Parker Hale in 7 X 57.

That plan never got to the execution stage.  But if I still wanted an M-98 sporter, I'd much rather spend my time looking for a Parker Hale, FN, or Huqvarna sporting '98 than a Zastava.  They're kind of crude, even in the Whitworth guise.

IMHO, YMMV, and all of the that.........

JP

Offline Squib

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 09:47:09 PM »
coming from a young man's standpoint on being ignorant about guns....

I think that manueverability and comfort carrying/wielding the weapon translate to some primal melee urge or caveman thing.... same for trigger jerking and rushing things... patience and knowledge and trust in the tools come with age and experience.  We need to *&(^ up and lose a few good guns before we realize what we've done and develope our tastes.  It takes time and money, and good handloaded ammo usually. 

Offline Tonk

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Re: Why can't we have the old Interarms Mark X in the US?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 12:19:24 PM »
Those Mark X action rifles where a dream come true for those who didn't have a big bank account and just wanted a good reliable quaility made rifle, that would last for years and years down the road. Heavy sure they were not made out of balsa wood or aluminum.

I remember when Browning sold the Belgium Browning Safari rifle made by FN and these were very well made rifles, excellent steel and yes indeed they were heavy but looked like a 375H&H African rifle with sun shade over the front sights. The one I had was the most accurate rifle out of the box I have ever owned and it shot factory 180 grn factory ammo to the tune .985-MOA. My handloads dropped it down to .685-MOA with match Sierra Boat Tail bullets. I never minded the fact that gun seemed heavy to others who held it to their shoulder.  ;D